MacGregorSailors.com

Sorry to bring back a semi-dead thread that has probably been discussed way too many times for some of you...

but what the hull...I will do it anyway!

As I continue to research installing a second battery on my I have another question regarding the battery switch. My current setup is with the standard factory battery in the compartment just under the stairs. I have a routine on-off battery switch in that compartment as well.

Has anyone installed a second battery but moved the 1-2-Both-Off type switch to the pedastal? Is it possible? Is it smart?

Okay, more than one question. I know some of the models (at least Bastonjock's) have the battery in the base of the pedastal and a switch on the pedastal. I like that pedastal switch location so I want to see if it can be done on an .

Thanks,
Jim

I wouldnt want to run battery cables that long to the pedistal.

I am a fan of the 3 switch solution (do a search on the forum) for its simplicity and ease of use and installation.

Since you so infrequently use the switch, I see no reason to keep it readily accessable.

Paul S wrote:I am a fan of the 3 switch solution (do a search on the forum) for its simplicity and ease of use and installation.

Ditto. Simple, effective and can even be understood by your 'assistants' on the boat.

As far as the location, I guess I'd rather locate it inside - I tend to use it more when I'm there than at the helm. The length of the cables could be mitigated by using heavier cables I suppose, but that's unnecessary weight.

Paul and Kevin,

Thanks for the info. But I was thinking since I mostly will be single-handing that having the battery switch up at the pedastal will make it easier and safer for switching between the batteries by myself...don't have to go below.

But I am thinking that this will be more difficult than it sounds and may not be worth the effort. Plus all the 1-2-Both-Off switches I have looked at on-line are fairly large and might not fit well (or look good) on the pedastal.

Just brainstorming...that is pretty much all I can do over here (except for a few sailing trips with some generous British Mac owners).

Jim

I guess I dont understand the need to switch from motor to house from the cockpit.

The only reason I see to change the switch is to combine them to self jump start, or if you need to combine the batteries for the combined amps...otherwise they are totally disconnected from each other.

The 3 switch solution could be more flexible for a single hand due to its simplicity.. charges both at the same time (well, one, then ther other)... and is diconnected once the motor is stopped..totally automatic.

Paul S wrote:The 3 switch solution could be more flexible for a single hand due to its simplicity.. charges both at the same time (well, one, then ther other)... and is diconnected once the motor is stopped..totally automatic.

I didn't realize this. My only experience was a sailing course where every time you started the motor you had to swtich to "1" which was the battery used for starting. Once the motor was running you switched to "Both" to charge both batteries. Once the motor was switched off you switched the battery to "2" which was the house battery.

If the switch is automatic then NEVER MIND!

Learn something new everyday.

Thanks,
Jim

check out west marine advisor

It is a good writeup for the system

here is a pic. sometimes it is easier to understand by seeing the switch,

Mine's even simpler - I literally use three toggle switches. Simple, easy!

I think Paul S is talking about a battery combiner (otherwise known as a voltage sensitive relay - VSR). These are very good devices IMHO, and automatically look after cross charging without having to play with switches.

Most versions also allow a switch to be connected so you can manually put the batteries in parallel to give an extra boost for starting if needed. I've wired a push-button on my console to do this, so I can just hold in the button while starting the engine to use both batteries (not that I've needed to). You don't need a hefty switch or big cables, because it just activates the relay in the combiner.

My master switches allow me to run stuff from either battery - I usually use the house battery, but I can switch over to use the starter battery if needed. These switches are completely separate from the combiner though. So manual intervention is just deciding which battery to run from. Charging, from motor as well as wind & solar trickle chargers, looks after itself.

Hope that makes sense

Jim - if you can find time for a trip down here I can show you how it works

Cheers, Rick

Hmm.. I thought Paul was talking about the three-switch method. His picture happens to also show, and the WM description also mentions a combiner - and indeed my system has one of those as well - but I had though he was addressing the need to switch power sources.

On my M I have a simple 4 position manual switch ("Off", "1", "Both", or "2") mounted on the cabin face of the battery compartment housing. This location keeps the heavy duty battery leads as short as possible.

I sail single handed and find the switch ready to hand in that location when needed. Its also a highly visible master switch when I want to shut of all power usage to minimize battery drain when the boat is out of the water.

My simple switch is relatively cheap, so lacks the sophisticated balanced charging circuitry described by others in this thread. So, following the advice from threads on this and other forums, I usually alternate between 1 or 2 when operating the boat to keep both batteries well charged, reserving "Both" for the yet-to-be-encountered situation where is not enough oomph in either battery to turn the starter. I gather this can help avoid a problem of a less well charged battery draining power from the a well charged one.

I also have a separate toggle switch that enables me to transfer low amperage auxiliaries such as the radios to either battery circuit (e.g the one not connected to the motor at the time).

I thought Paul was talking about the three-switch method

Seems he's talking about both!

His comments about automatic charging across both batteries described the operation of a combiner. You don't need the 3 switches in order to use a VSR combiner. In fact many VSRs incorporate a "parallel" function which in my view makes a separate big parallel switch redundant.

I only want the batteries in parallel while charging (which the VSR looks after) or when requiring extra starter power in case of a run-down starter battery (VSR manual override). I don't like being able to switch the batteries parallel permanently, there's no reason to and it's too easy to leave the switch in the wrong position.

IIRC the 3-switch+VSR panel Paul has is supplied by BEP as a single unit. Since it includes a parallel switch I suspect their VSR doesn't have that function built-in. As Paul says, you never need to play with the switches, unless you need "emergency parallel", but I guess he switches main and house off when leaving the boat.

I just happen to think this many big switches is overkill. A VSR with manual override takes care of everything except isolating power when the boat is unattended. I don't feel it's necessary to isolate the starter battery from the motor (you don't in a car!), so all you really need is a master switch to isolate the house battery. A decent-size toggle switch will do that (as observed!).

I actually think I agree with the view that a separate starter battery is itself overkill in these boats, but that's how mine came and I've retained the setup. When my batteries expire I might re-think it.

Cheers, Rick

RickJ wrote:

I thought Paul was talking about the three-switch method

Seems he's talking about both!

Yes my BEP setup is both.

RickJ wrote: IIRC the 3-switch+VSR panel Paul has is supplied by BEP as a single unit. Since it includes a parallel switch I suspect their VSR doesn't have that function built-in. As Paul says, you never need to play with the switches, unless you need "emergency parallel", but I guess he switches main and house off when leaving the boat.

Nope I leave them both ON all the time. Since the motor and house are totally seprarate, no need to ever touch them.

The only time I touch them is if I am making an electric repair, or need a lot of amps for the inverter (which is quite rare).

The unit I have (WM no longer sells) is actually 3 separate switches and a VSR connected with lil connectors to make one big one.

I like it because at a glance you can tell what is on or off.

I don't think I even touched the switches last year in over 25 sailing days, even once. No need to.

Not trying to sell the unit, just making a suggestion to assist single handling the boat by not moving the switch to the cockpit (trying to stay on topic somewhat)

The VSR charges the starting battery first. Once it is fully charged, it closes the relay and charges the house one. This happens regardless of the setting of the switches . All of them could be off and they would still charge, well the motor one should be on if the motor is running. But you could put a charger on the starting battery, all switchs OFF and it would charge properly.

If you want your 1, 2, both, none switch then keep it. Not trying to sell you on the 3 switch solution. I just see no downside to the 3 switch/vsr solution. I just happen to like it, and it works well for me.

I have a stock 4 position 1,2,both,off switch under the aft dinette seat on my M. The reason I am writing this is that it has been mentioned above that the switch is infrequently used. Not so in my case, I use it every day. Once upon a time I had a bad battery which was not charging - - - I too used to keep the switch on BOTH 100% of the time.

Then one day I was sailing and one of the batteries was dead (unbeknownst to me, so the other battery was taking all the load of stereo, engine raising, GPS, etc., etc. At the end of the sail when it was time to lower the engine, I had enough juice to lower it but not enough to start it. I sailed to an area where I could get help, but we couldn't hand start my 60 E-Tec - - - I later learned you have to take off the top to get a better hold for the starting rope. So we sailed back into my slip - - - not an easy task - - - half an hour of shore power and the engine started right up (too late).

Long story short (too late again) - - - those guys who helped me taught me to switch the battery to one or the other battery when sailing, so that if you do run a battery down, you have another one to use to lower and start the engine. Before I begin sailing, I switch over to one battery and leave the snap on the cushion over the switch undone to remind me when the sail is over that the switch needs to be turned back to "both".

I thought it was a neat little tip

Rick