MacGregorSailors.com

I HAVE BEEN TALKING WITH A MACGREGOR DEALER, XXX, WHO TELLS ME I NEED TO REPLACE A BUNCH OF STANDER PARTS. THE STANDERD FURLER NEEDS TO BE REPLACED AND HE DOSE NOT EVEN SELL THEM. HE HAS A BETTER FURLER, SAME PRICE. THE BOAT NEEDS REPLACED CONTROLS AND THE FACTORY MOTOR IS NOT AS GOOD AS THE ONE HE SELLS. HE SAYS THE SAILS ARE CHEAP AND WILL TEAR IN HIGH WINDS. I WILL SAIL IN SAN FRANCISCO BAY AND THIS SCARES ME. THE LOCAL DEALER SAYS THE STANDARD SAILS ARE FINE BUT HE DOSE NOT DISCOUNT LIKE MY OTHER DEALER. I CAN SAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO DRIVE ALL THE WAY TO XXX BUT DON'T LIKE BUYING FROM SOMEONE WHO BADS OUT THE BOAT. DO I REALLY NEED THE RELPACED PARTS? ILIKE TO HAVE A BETTER BOAT AND THIS WILL ALSO SAVE MONEY. ANY ADVICE?

What year is your Mac.? How hard has it been used?
If the hardware is in good condition, sails still good, let it alone.
Dose your motor run, what is it?

Please do not use all caps - i implies you are shouting

Mac does not make a roller furler, they have used CDI in the past. I heard they might go with (or may have already) another type.

There is no factory motor or controls. It is whatever the dealer buys.

The sails are quite good for production sails. never heard a complaint about them from anyone. No doubt there are 'better' sails, but the stock ones are more than up to the task. Even our local sailmaker said the factory sails were very well made for the price (when I had slides put on the main and UV on the genny)

Are you talking about a used Mac or a new M? I have no (well little) issue with most parts used on a Mac, at least our 26M.

Your XXX dealer seems a bit ignorant, or wants to upsell quite a bit

Hello Dylan

There are legitimate issues which are raised here, but it sounds like a matter of style of presentation which might have irked you a bit.

Trying not to 'bad the boat'
The boat is ready to sail as it comes from the factory. Knowing what I know now, I wouldnt take stock sails onto SF Bay unless I would conciously sail in light winds only - even then you can get caught. The Doyle OEM sails are very light and 'entry level grade' and unless you are careful with them they will lose shape in 1-2 seasons. They wont tear up and turn into streamers. I sailed a Sabre 36 footer on SF Bay 4 weeks ago, incidentally.

I dont much care for the Mac furler and think there is better kit out there but we offer it as well as options.

I would want my lines led aft for Bay Sailing. You dont need to do this buying new of course.

There is no such animal as a 'factory motor' - Mac is an authorised Evinrude motor installer so you can buy an Evinrude motor from them. Unlike the car industry, makers of boats dont make engines. You can put the motor of your choice on this boat, just buy the boat and take it to your motor dealer of choice. I dont think there is much to choose between motors of comparable technology and recommend you buy the fuel injected (2 stroke or 4 stroke) engine of your choice.

Your XXX dealer seems a bit ignorant, or wants to upsell quite a bit

Hey! I resemble that remark!!!!

Basically what KHE said but from a laymans point of view.
Having just set up a 2008M with the new factory furler and an E-Tec 60 I can make the following observations.

• Furler is similar to the CDI that is normally fitted to the pre factory furler models. It is a bit cheaper and nastier in construction but performs adequately once you get used to it. (replace factory rope)
• E-Tec 60 was a bit disappointing in performance especially with full crew and ballast. It’s performance is marginal un-ballasted but it does its job and if you don’t need/want to motor at 20knts it is fine. Good fuel economy and nice and quite. Must admit most of my recent boating has been on stink boats prior to getting the M and my sailing was done on beach cats so the need for speed may be misplaced.

Most modern outboards are quality machines so if you go for a named model should be OK. Just don't expect factory claimed performance with a 50/60 unless you are alone and empty. I would expect xxx gets a commission on his brand of outboard.

• Factory sails are a light weight and I don’t expect them to last more than 3 years or so. But will replace when needed.
• Factory rope on running rig scuffs and feathers easily and I don’t expect it to last more than a year on the sheets.
• Factory setup on lines is basic and needs to be improved like lines led aft and not using a trucker’s hitch on main halyard.

My advice buy the basic boat then set it up as you go modifying it to your needs and wants. Read this forum, read this forum and read this forum.

BTW did I mention that I got a lot of good advice and ideas from this forum.

The sails used on a MacGregor seem to be OK for the hundreds of MacGregors sailing in San Francisco Bay! One of our oldest dealers, now third generation dealer, is in San Francisco and has sold as many Macs as anyone alive. All of his boats were delivered with stock MacGregor sails. It is perfectly OK to use the standard MacGregor rig, boat, sails, halyards etc in San Francisco bay. Period. I'll have more to say about this later.
MIke Inmon

I have found this board to be a wonderful source of information that is usually no more biased than any midstream religious organization. I also have owned a few boats of various sizes, qualities and configurations. The Mac is the first I have bought new that was over 16 ft. For the price, the quality is reasonable. Some hardware could be replaced, but should is another story. I am sorry you have purchesed this boat from a dealer you can no longer trust. If you had spent some time here before buying you would have gotten a feel for what you can expect from a dealer and which ones are prefered for their services, after market support, annual regattas and get togethers, etc. If it were me I would save my dollars and use the existing equipment, it maybe far more adiquate than you need or you will be in a position to know more precisely what you want.

And another observation, it appears that you are relatively new to sailing a boat of this size. The stock hardware is probably more than you need to learn on at this time.

on edit rereading it is not clear if you have bought the boat, if not go with the closest dealer you can trust, or which has the best reputation for after sale service. You will need that far more in the years to come than whatever you think you are saving from the out of town wholesaler.

Sailed a Mac 26 D for 12 summers on Lake Michigan. Sails styed in decent shape. Nothing Mac-supplied broke. Some brisk weather but reduced sail area as needed to maintain boat speed and control. No roller furling (hanked headsails).
Similar positive experience on my 2001 Mac 26X on Lake Michigan.
Have seen but never sailed on Frisco Bay, but would imagine that 4 foot waves and 20 mph winds would be as uncomfortable there as on Lake Michigan.
Ron

The factory now offers their own furler rather than the CDI. My opinion of this kit is posted elsewhere.

Im not an experienced SF Bay sailer, I only sail it 5-6x a year. On the 'classic' SF Bay sail (berkeley, Angel Island, Raccon St., Alcatraz, Treasure Island back to Berkeley) 4 weeks ago with Frank, it peaked at 28 kts, which was the lowest peak I have seen on the Bay.

I think 28 kts is too much for the stock Mac kit, especially for the beginner or intermediate sailor (like me). If you are willing to pull everything down below 25 kts or so and motor then stock kit will work for you. I dont think the stock kit will self destruct or anything, it is just made for lighter duty imho.

Of course guys like Leon or MadMike can handle sails in heavy weather, but goofballs like me will make mistakes and stress our cloth in heavy weather and thats when the damage is done.

Sorry, Mike, but I disagree. I know Arena Yachts sells all their boats with stock sails and true, they won't tear to shreads in the 35 kts winds. Speaking from personal experience, however, my stock sails lasted for 1 1/2 seasons. At that point, they were so blown out that i had extreme heel angles and an uncontrollable boat. Paft of it was the learning curve i.e. luffing them too much. On the other hand, a 3.9 oz sail doesn't lend itself to heavy weather sailing, thus oftentimes it was necessary to sail with sails luffing a bit so the boat wouldn't be overpowered. Of course, this greatly contributes to the deterioration of sails. Yes, you can sail SF bay on stock sails, but not for long. To be fair, Frank C also sails on SF Bay and still has his original mainsail which is now about 6-7 years old. Can't quie figure that one out. I think I have to agree with dealer XXX. Although a stock Mac will sail in typical SF Bay conditions, it won't do it well. The first year I had my boat, I was extremely frustrated. This led me to the numeroud mods I made including high quality sails. Now the boat is a pleasure to sail, but prior to that, it was oftentimes very frustrating.

Leon

When I bought my 26M new in 2004 I initially assumed I'd be replacing the sails in a year or two. I sailed the boat on the Narragansett Bay in '04, '05, and '06 then on Lake Seneca, NY in '07. For those first 3 years on the Narragansett I saw a lot of 20-25 knot days, but my original sails are still fine. The bottom line is that there is a LAW for sailing a Mac:

REEF EARLY AND OFTEN

With the stock sail properly reefed and trimmed, I think you are fine in up to about 30 knots (26M). Above that, you'll want a beefier sail or an extra reef point. Any sail, no matter who made it, is going to get blown out or otherwise damaged if it is used in poor trim for any length of time, or not reefed when necessary.

Once you've done enough mods on the boat to say that it no longer "qualifies" as a "stock" hull, then of course you're going to need to replace the sails to match the hull. But for a relatively new or novice sailor on a fiarly stock boat, the OEM will do the trick.

- Andy

The sails that come with MacGregors are good. sails. The shape is tried and true Making a sail for a new design requires several attempts even for a good sailmaker. This is very true for someehing as unknown as thr rotating mast. Cats have used such a thing for a long time but sailmakers are not used to building mains for monohulls with rotating masts. They will not get it right the frst time. We, Roger and I, put more than one sail in the trash when we started working with the rotating mast. Use it once, make a correction and throw it away. Long and short of it is; you can get a sail made of heavier material for crossing oceans (that is what I'd do) or you can get a sail made of high-tec materials, very stiff and light, for racing (that is what I'd do) or use the better shaped MacGregor sails for normal MacGregor Powersailor use (that is what I do). Don't change sails just because some local sailmaker says so! He is wrong! Just needs your money.
This will apply to most of the changes an unscrupulous dealer wants extra money for. Spend the money on: microwave, pressure water, shower, BBQ,

These bad-boys are worth the money, more so than a microwave. If you must use the microwave, stay at home







More pics

Leon