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I recently bought a sparsely equipped 26X. I come from a racing background so performance under sail is probably more important to me than most Mac owners. I know she has a reputation for being a slug but I would like to squeeze as much performance out of her as I can without resorting to high tech sails and extensive racing gadgetry. These forums provide a wealth of information on the Mac and what to look for. There are a couple of forum issues I would like to see resolved soon and hope some of you can offer comment.

I have read numerous posts about excessive weather helm and various ways to combat it. I subscribe to experimenting with mast rake, paying attention to what sails are up, keeping them trimmed, reefing them when necessary, and watching where the heavy stuff is stored. I dont subscribe to raising the centerboard when going to weather; thats a no-no. Sail trim in higher wind ranges is difficult with the stock Mac as there is no effective way to adjust the outhaul, no cunningham to set main luff tension, no adjustable backstay to introduce some mast bend, and the single reefing point on the stock main is, as Chip Hindes would saywords fail me. Another contributing factor is the quality of the sails. IMO the stock sails are marginal even when new. They are made of lightweight sailcloth and the main looks fuller than I would want. Im sure they wont maintain their shape long and after that heel will increase and performance will suffer. Hope the group comes up with a consensus on what works best.

I want to buy a new quality genoa, as my boat doesnt have one. I read a few reports of owners regretting they bought a genoa. Since a good one will run about $800 this gets my attention. They observed that their boats pointed better with the jib. One recommended putting the jib on the furler for windward work and buying an asymmetric spinnaker for off the wind courses. Another did the same with the jib but used his genoa like an asymmetric. This just wont work for me. This boat needs a genny that works well on all points of sail. I decided to delve into this further and I am concluding that the problem is with the rig. Hopefully some of you can verify my observations or convince me Im wrong.

The first time I raised the mast I couldnt believe how loooong the spreaders were. My first thought was that there is no way an overlapping headsail could be properly set if it had to wrap itself around those long spreaders and associated outboard shrouds. I took a couple of lines and made a triangle with sides having lengths equal to the luff, leech and foot of the stock genoa (25 4, 22 8, and 16 9 respectively). Then I tied the head to the halyard, the tack to the furler, stretched the clew of this around the spreaders and hoisted it. Wow! The spreaders and shrouds protruded well beyond what would have been the sailcloth if this were a real sail. No wonder the boat wont point with a genoa. Next I ran this imaginary sail inside the upper shroud. It appeared that the sail would really like a spreader that was about 2/3s the length of the stock 44-inch spreader. I took a few measurements and determined that a 36-inch spreader would reduce the upper shroud-to-mast angle from 17.7 degrees to 14.6 degrees. I havent attempted to calculate how much the compressive loads will increase but a sort-of-similar rig has 30-inch spreaders and a smaller mast section. On this boat we always trim the genny to within 3 inches of the tips of these 30-inch spreaders.

I have already ordered 36-inch spreaders that were bill of material on the pre 1995 Mac 26. I plan to install a shorter spreader on one side and closely monitor how the mast reacts with the jib. I am optimistic the shorter spreader will be fine and Ill proceed with the new genoa. Your thoughts?

One concern is that the pull on the chainplates from the upper shroud will be moving from vertical to more inward, vectoring closer to the pull of the lower shroud. Will this cause cracking in the deck on the inboard side of the chainplates? What about the inward pull on the chainplate bolts that go through the hull?

Given the shorter stays, will you have to compound the above with increased tension to get sufficient bend?

I don't know for sure... just pondering.

--
Moe

Symmetry is important to keep the mast from bending sideways. I would not shorten just one spreader.

Normo wrote:I come from a racing background...

Cool...seems like a lot of racing types wouldn't be caught dead on this site...or admitting to owning a Mac...

Both the other (non small) boats I've sailed these last couple of years (O'day 272LE and Wavelength24) have inboard chainplates/shrouds...probably a good foot inboard of the rail....that's gonna make a difference in how far you can sheet it in. I'm trying to recall my memory here, but I have a feeling that our Mac Genoa doesn't even hit the spreaders when sheeted in all the way. Ie, it wraps on the outer shroud (fairly low) before it can be pulled in enough to hit the spreader. I could be wrong, but this seems to be the way I remember it. If this is the case, I don't think a shorter spreader is going to do much for you since you aren't going to be changing the position of the shroud much down low where the sail wraps. (besides the fact that the top half of your thin mast may snap off in a blow if you shorten it too much)

I've recently put in the adjustable outhaul and backstay and those two mods have been very useful so far. I now need to focus on shortening the forestay, getting the rigging good and tight, and getting a spinnaker. Hmmm, maybe a trapeze would be a good mod for keeping this light boat from heeling too far over...guess it would be hard to singlehand with the wheel steering and all...

My memory agreed w/Dimitri's so I went to the mods pages to see if following picture might confirm it. sure enough!



This is my 135 UK Tapedrive Genny. You'll see that the stock spreader isn't even close. But the real problem, at least with this sail, is that it's a deck sweeper. No matter your lead, the clew is so close to the gunwale level that we cannot pull it any lower to tighten the leech. The only solution (with this sail) would be a barberhauler rigged thru a block mounted down on the side of the hull, or just mounting the genoa track to the hull - clearly unattractive options.

Otherwise, be sure your sailmaker cuts the leech shorter, for a rising foot. This would permit the sheets to increase leech tension and take advantage of that newly created spreader clearance - or so it seems from my seat!


If you'd like measurements of this 135, phone the UK Detroit loft and ask for their specs (a 135 for a Mac26x). Ordered off-season ~3 years ago, I recall they charged about $920 ... it will undoubtedly cost more now.

Frank C's photo was very helpful. It confirmed his and Dimitri's recollection that the spreader isn't close to the genoa when the sail is sheeted in tight. This may be premature but I believe the photo also supports my contention that the long spreaders make it impossible for a sailmaker to design an overlapping sail that will have a decent shape when trimmed for beating.

To prevent the sail from contacting the spreaders when close hauled it appears that the sailmaker made the leech of the sail longer than would be desired for a satisfactory upwind sail shape. Note the considerable twist in the mid and upper portions of Frank's sail. This twist is not conducive to good pointing. If you search around for photos of other modern cruising or racing sailboats or study them on the water you will note that when sailing to weather their genoa leech will scribe a slight curve that is much closer to a straight line than the shape depicted in Frank's photo.

Some owners comment that pointing ability may be hampered by the genoa cars being located too far outboard. I measured angles for both the jib and genoa car locations and concluded that both positions are ok. The jib car lead angle was slightly over 8 degrees which is right on the money. I don't have a genoa so I just checked the angle to the front and rear of the tracks. It measured 9 and 10.5 degrees respectvely which should be fine.

I called my sailmaker for advise. He agreed that the long spreaders were a problem. He advised what measurements to take and said that his design software includes inputs for spreader length and spreader sweep angle. I can see that this is going to take a while.

I don't perceive a problem sailing with spreaders of different length. When sailing upwind the leeward upper and lower shrouds do little to keep the mast in column. On small boats they are often totally unloaded because the hull and deck flexes. I suspect this is the case for the Mac but I haven't sailed it enough to verify this. If I'm missing something please let me know.

Regarding racing: Our club is full of die hard racers and several are shaking their head at my purchase. I couldn't care less. I became bored and tired of the constant squabbling in our PHRF and One Design fleets. I can still participate in our weekly beer can races and our casual cruising boat fleet races. Trailered the Mac to the Keys right after I got her and had a nice 4 day cruise with the Miami Macs. The serious club racers are still mostly limited to sailing around racing marks in the river for a couple of hours each month. I know I had more fun and this is only the beginning.

Another thought, or two. Just from memory, I'd guess that the leech does not extend as far back as the spreader. The first physical interference would be the leech contacting the shrouds below the spreaders. Spreaders 8 inches inboard of the factory may deliver only 4 inches at that point of leech contact.

I wonder what size genny would just place the clew at the chainplate .... guessing 120 to 125 %. Hence, a 135 could possibly be sheeted to curl the chainplate if the sheet can be guided. With a more rising clew you could easily barberhaul the sheet to the cabintop.

If your geography provides +15 knot averages for some months per year, a 125 or 135 might be preferable to 150. My 135 is clearly "beyond appropriate" for 17 to 20 knots. The aft car distinctly limits the angles. I've never tried reefing it and then sheeting to the cabintop, but others report success. However, my experience in winds of 15+ is that the reefed main and 100 jib provide ample-to-excess power for the hull weight & stability. You definitely need the mid-way reef point to the main. In windy conditions the surplus mainsail is where the boat suffers most.

The smaller overlap will somewhat reduce the rigging's contribution to a problem. And, as already mentioned, the shorter spreaders might place more demands on the hull, which structure is lighter than sailboat norms (no bulkheads as one example). Because it appears that there's rigging clearance to improve the sail's cut before changing the spreaders, I'd defer a spreader change until all other changes have been tried & tested.

Your approach validates the general feelings about why we own this boat., Few of us have the necessary experience (I definitely do not), but many would like to pursue your path with some guidance. I'm looking forward to following your progress.

The genoa photo doesn't look very close hauled to me, but it's kind of difficult to tell for sure from a photo. Looks like the top of the leach is very open. I can't see the foot so I'm not sure if the slider block needs to be moved forward a bit to allow the leach to close.

With my stock 150 Genoa, the sheets would be very close to the stanchion (if not touching it) with the cars all the way forward. But it is still pulling on the clew at quite a horizontal angle. On the racing boat I sail occasionally, besides the fact that the car track is probably 3 times as long, you can set it so that it has an almost vertical pull down on the clew of the big Genoa. This keeps the leech much straighter than I could ever dream to get on my Mac. This probably also contributes to the boat's poor pointing ability...at least in lighter winds when you don't want that twist.

Hi Normo,

Glad to have you with us. Along the same linesof thing s that can make a difference - the first thing I did was set the mast vertical like most other sailboats do. Later I cut 12" off of each of my spreaders to give the genoa room to pull in. Discussed this with a sailmaker regarding the stress, etc and he agreed. My first two sailboats, an Aquarius 21 and also a 23 had no spreaders. In the last two months I increased the leading edge of my rudders 30%. At the same time had to repair my centerboard as the hole ripped out. Added ss plates on each side of the cb so it now remains straight. Another member pulled his cb, the hole was oblong so he is adding plates to his. May be something to take a look at. Added a used curved traveler, found at a swap meet, to the top of my cabin. It is mounted on tracks so can be slid fw'd out of the way. Gets the mainsheet out of the cockpit and provides better sail shape>

Good sailing, Murv

Is there a way to add a block (or snatch block rigged as a barber hauler) attachment point foward about a foot where it looks like it needs to be for the Genny photo above? Not sure if the stantion bases are strong enough to hold the genoa but for a quick pointing test in a medium breeze might be instructive.

Murv Barry - what a find!

Murv, please tell us more i.e.

1. Did you modify your genoa?
2. To get the full benefit of the shorter spreaders did your sailmaker recommend that you buy a new genoa (silly question) or have the stock sail recut?
3. Is close hauled performance with the genoa now clearly better than with the jib in light and moderate air? This isn't as easy to determine as you might think as pointing is not a conclusive measure of windward performance; Velocity Made Good is. Hopefully your boat can sail to an upwind destination in less time with the genoa than it can with the jib (better VMG).
4. Have you had a chance to sail the boat in really nasty conditions to see if anything breaks?
5. Any specifics on the rationale the sailmaker used to conclude that the shorter spreaders shouldn't compromise the rig structurally?
6. Lots of folks complain about weather helm. Please tell us how your boat balances.

Like your other mods as well.

The wind was 11 knots and the boat was 65 degrees off the wind. It won't climb any higher than 50-55 under this Genoa. The car is fully forward and cannot create any more down-pull on the leech.

You can't tell from the picture, but the clew is at same height of the cabintop. Therefore, any barberhauler would need to lead down the side of the boat, below the cabintop. I don't want to drill holes down there.

I mentioned that the jib is better (faster overall) for higher wind speeds ... in fact, it's probably more fun at anything above 12 knots.

It's interesting how sails compare. Here is what I believe is the stock 150 genoa (with UV stripe added). We are sailing in about 6-8 knots of wind. You can't quite see the spreader, but you can tell that there is quite a bit less twist. I think the leech is shorter on the stock sail than on the tapedrive one shown.

Something is also optically strange in the tapedrive picture. Note how the leeward upper shroud is very curved. Either there is some distortion in that picture or the rig is very slack.

The genoa car is at least 1/3 back (much farther forward and the sheet hits our dodger). It may even be closer to the half way position. My son was trimming, and I'm sure things aren't trimmed down especially hard.



Here is a shot of the main taken at the same time. Ignore the windex. We aren't pointing that close to the wind. This was 3 weeks into our 3-1/2 week trip and the rod that supports the windex had slid down in the bracket so it no longer spun free and accurate.

Could the curved shroud be the result of a wide angle lens?