MacGregorSailors.com

Some of you no doubt have followed along as I rekindled my sailing legs. Went out again today. Last day on the lake, docks come out Monday. Tony came with us again, and I did almost nothing. Tony did most all the work with the crew being my wife when needed.

What I was doing was wheel spinning in my head. Thinking, designing, and redesigning. Seeing what I have is a pretty sound old 83 Mac 25, and seeing what is available in an X and and an M.

When it comes right down to it, what I have is almost perfect for us. Faster sailboat than we need, at least as fast as an X or an M, all things being equal. Limited to smaller engine max size, and we are OK with that, having only a kicker motor to launch and come in again. We are in no great hurry to cross our lake.

Where my boat is lacking:

1: King size helm to comfortably accommodate a 6 '7" tall guy with long legs and a large everything. Little benches like a sunfish kids boat ain't cutting it.

2: Steering wheel highly preferred over a tiller.

3: Great view of the lake with a higher vantage point by sitting high or comfortably standing up without the boom being in the way.

4: Easy way to enter the boat, from trailer, water, or slip.

5: Impossibly Small Head.

6: No place to store fuel, and old antiquated engine pull start only.


I was leaning towards an M because of the higher helm seat, but that was not a perfect boat for me as I was going to have issues with boarding.

Tonight staring at my Mac 25 in the front of my store from my office, it all came together.

With the boat I already have, I can pick features I see on Macs and other boats and build them into mine.

My Plan:

I will be adding several feet to the stern of my boat that will have several key features:

1: King size XXL helm with plenty of room to cuddle with the Admiral.

2: Giant steering wheel that holds rudder where you leave it. Easy to walk around.

3: High view of the lake with plenty of room to sit or stand well behind the boom. Back deck will be the height of the cabin.

4: Built in stairs that will work from trailer, water, or dock.

5: New Head built into stairs of stern addition with curtains when needed. Much easier to clean / service because it stays outside cabin.

6: Tripple 6 gallon gas tanks storage near engine. Engine electric start and lowered into water from helm.


Extra flotation will be added to the length of the boat, while the rudder stays where it is.

Yes, I know it will lower the top speed at sail, but I am OK with that.

I expect the addition to add about five feet to the length of the Mac 25, making her a Mac 30 GM.

I will post updates to this thread as work progresses.

As always, suggestions are always welcome.

I will need a two axle trailer now.

Presuming that it's possible to extend the stern without grossly reducing the structural integrity of the boat ( I don't know one way or the other if that's possible ) you will have the problem that the Center of Effort on the sails will move well forward of the midway point of the boat, which means the the boat will automatically turn to leeward unless you counter tha with the helm, reducing efficiency.

mastreb wrote:Presuming that it's possible to extend the stern without grossly reducing the structural integrity of the boat ( I don't know one way or the other if that's possible ) you will have the problem that the Center of Effort on the sails will move well forward of the midway point of the boat, which means the the boat will automatically turn to leeward unless you counter tha with the helm, reducing efficiency.

Granted, it will no longer sail like a Mac 25. My length extension will not all be in the water. I am thinking eighteen inches at the hull and about two feet at the water level, and tapering up and out over the water to the new deck. I am hoping to minimize the effects by having little extra in the water, and making the extension out of light weight materials.

Also changing the look of the windows and changing the hull to black vinyl wrap to match my truck. Can't have a white boat going down the road behind a black truck.

Name change next season:

G2R

Engine suggestions for a small electric start kicker with the ability to charge a battery??

Gary..rough view of outboards by HP

2-6 HP...single cylinder, pull start, can usually add small alternator kit as option.electric start usually not available

8-15 HP twin cylinders, pull or electric start option, beefier alternators

20 HP and up...three cylinders electric start standard, pull start backup, alternators standard

I would start your brand search by finding a local source for parts in Lincoln and strongly considering that brand.

Everything on Gary's list leads me to think his needs are for more cockpit room for a more enjoyable sailing experience. Instead of lengthening the boat, I'm visualizing lengthening the cockpit by modding part of the cabin. Essentially turning the boat into more of a 'daysailor'... a bigger cockpit and smaller cabin.

For reference, here is such a project... turning a Pearson Triton into a daysailor: The Daysailor Project

Not to sound to negative, but I'd ditch the 25 and start with an S, X or M. I've done a lot of hot rod work and one of the worst things I've done is work or modify something just because I have it. A couple times I would of been better off to of started with something else.

The S, X and M already have a large rear berth to start with and we enlarged our V-berth, by removing the head and relocating it to a cabin where it is now very easy to use. Ruth thinks that was one of the best mods.

With your size I would never personally want to give up the tiller for a wheel. The wheel takes up so much more room in the cockpit. I don't even like it on our Endeavour and it is a large boat. You can see....



....that even there it is hard to get around. You can put an autopilot on the tiller and have a lot more cockpit room. When we get into boating I think the natural instinct is to want a wheel as that is what we are use to everyday with our cars, but for a smaller boat I think they have way more negatives than positives. You wouldn't think about putting a wheel on your motorcycle I like the feel the tiller gives me over the wheel a lot. Ruth always wanted a wheel, but then got use to the tiller and now doesn't like the wheel that much either.

If you do extend the length of the boat here is the link...

http://ezrecord.com/yumikomaru/index.html

...to a guy that did do that to a 26 D.





On the outboard we have a Tohatsu 9.8 HP extra long shaft with electric start. You can also get some of the 8-10 HP outboards with auto-lifts and remote controls. I made a lifting system or ours that works easy enough for Ruth to raise and lower it and extended the controls, but would eventually like to make the controls more remote with morse cables.

We have thousands of dollars in our boat, not counting my time, that we will never get back when we sell her, but that is fine as she has given us far more than that in enjoyment. For what you are planning I hope you realize that you will probably loose way more than even we will at the time of sale. That could be fine if you get the use out of the boat like we have. Good luck and I'll be interested in seeing the mod if you do it,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

K9Kampers wrote:Everything on Gary's list leads me to think his needs are for more cockpit room for a more enjoyable sailing experience. Instead of lengthening the boat, I'm visualizing lengthening the cockpit by modding part of the cabin. Essentially turning the boat into more of a 'daysailor'... a bigger cockpit and smaller cabin.

For reference, here is such a project... turning a Pearson Triton into a daysailor: The Daysailor Project

This would probably be much simpler. If the 25 is like the 26 series, you could actually unbolt the upper deck at the rub-rail and replace the entire thing with a new fiberglass deck. Using the original upper deck as a plug, you would then make a fiberglass mold using typical techniques that you can Google or others (Dave B?) with more fiberglass experience can explain to you. Once you have the mold, you can modify that mold to extend the cockpit and sacrifice cabin space. When the mold is complete, you can make your new deck using it. This gives you the ability to go back to stock by swapping the original deck back onto the hull, and you've got a mold you can use to sell "daysailor decks" to other owners.

Matt

Thanks for everyones replys. Very cool links and photographs.

I like the idea of removing the head location as it is now, but for me, moving it to another interior location, is just not something I want to do. I own a retail store and one unplesant job I have is cleaning bathrooms. On my boat, the head will be self cleaning as much as possible, by being outside in the rain, and spray from the lake, and a hose off when needed. It will be a plastic bag toilet, so nothing to change, empty. Under one step will be new bags, onder another will be the trash can, and the larger step is the potti.

I am now wrestling with the idea of not extending the boat below the waterline, and adding balast in the bow. Brainstorming on doing all external changes in the form of a deck, like a deck on your house. Decking comes in materials not made of wood, and does not rot or take on water. It also comes in colors.

Not really technically talented here but I will relate some experience I have had with the MAC25 here in Florida ... out in the open seas et al. You can go from there.

If you don't plan to trailor your sailboat, your plan sounds well enough for me. Stay in lakes. If you plan to go places far to the adventurist side of life (such as here in Florida), best listen up. The voice of experience is about to ring reality as I have experienced the hard way.

The passages between the outside and inside (between ocean and Island cuts) can be a challenge with even just a stock unmodified sailboat of this size. My MAC25 had the maximum size engine. An Evinrude Yaghtwin 9.9 hp outboard with a 23 inch deep drive suitable for a sailing vessel of this size. In fact it is the maximum outboard spec for this type of hull design. It was only 2 years old and was in the 'pink', yet it could not push the hull beyond a nautical mile per hour when the tide was at peak and running out to sea while I was trying to head in to protected waters. I literally sat in one place with a wide open throttle for over an hour! I finally was able to make leeway in reverse. Seems the engine could pull better than push against such high currents between Island cuts! Just one more reason I became a believer of the MAC Powersailor class of sailboats! With my M I travel at high speed in and out of the cuts between Islands with very little loss of power and this makes my Admiral very very happy.

When you can 'blow' past the old purists sailboats at that time of the evenings' day, it warms your soul to no end

Oh well, that is my two cents worth. Good luck with whichever way you go

Tom

Unbolting hardware question:

Hardware nuts for the swim ladder and safety rail, are sandwiched in the walls. Does the backing nuts spin loose creating a major problem removing the bolts? Or are they fastened to the inside wall?

I am afraid to start removing hardware not knowing what comes after. An air chisel would ruin the finish of the parts.

Anyone with experience in taking off hardware on a Mac 25, let me know what to expect.

A friend tells me the boat I want or at least pretty close to what I want is already built. An x or an m. One of the macgregor dealers has a rundown list of the changes from x to m. Reading that list pushes me towards an m. So much to think about as we enter freezing weather here.

TAW02 wrote:Not really technically talented here but I will relate some experience I have had with the MAC25 here in Florida ... out in the open seas et al. You can go from there.

If you don't plan to trailor your sailboat, your plan sounds well enough for me. Stay in lakes. If you plan to go places far to the adventurist side of life (such as here in Florida), best listen up. The voice of experience is about to ring reality as I have experienced the hard way.

The passages between the outside and inside (between ocean and Island cuts) can be a challenge with even just a stock unmodified sailboat of this size. My MAC25 had the maximum size engine. An Evinrude Yaghtwin 9.9 hp outboard with a 23 inch deep drive suitable for a sailing vessel of this size. In fact it is the maximum outboard spec for this type of hull design. It was only 2 years old and was in the 'pink', yet it could not push the hull beyond a nautical mile per hour when the tide was at peak and running out to sea while I was trying to head in to protected waters. I literally sat in one place with a wide open throttle for over an hour! I finally was able to make leeway in reverse. Seems the engine could pull better than push against such high currents between Island cuts! Just one more reason I became a believer of the MAC Powersailor class of sailboats! With my M I travel at high speed in and out of the cuts between Islands with very little loss of power and this makes my Admiral very very happy.

When you can 'blow' past the old purists sailboats at that time of the evenings' day, it warms your soul to no end

Oh well, that is my two cents worth. Good luck with whichever way you go

Tom

Thanks

In studying what I am thinking of doing to my Mac 25, I have learned the addition I was planing to make is called a poop deck. French for stern. How funny, as I was planning to add an outside head in that addition. Maybe the French knew what I was thinking. Looking at the lines of my boat, in keeping the addition to a reasonable short length, I see no plausible way of adding stairs or a head built into them. Just makes the addition too long and too heavy. I do still think it is possible to add a poop deck to cover the engine, and rudder allowing a helm to be placed in the poop deck addition. I think this addition can be trimmed to forty inches of additional overall boat length. In the helm seat, if one wanted to, a head could be placed under the seat. Then you would not only have a helm, you would have a thrown and a poop deck all rolled into one package. With a staff of people bringing you food and water, you could sail for weeks and never get up. Lol.

I remember purchasing a forty eight foot long van body trailer to convert to a mobile home pulled behind a toter home semi. I still have that trailer, it never got past me licensing it as a camper trailer. Use it now as a storage trailer. Purchased a ready made camper trailer with a toy hauler garage in the back.

This project could also just be the dreams of an old man (turned 55 yesterday) that will end up just buying what he was thinking of building.

GaryMayo wrote:This project could also just be the dreams of an old man (turned 55 yesterday) that will end up just buying what he was thinking of building.

At your young age, I would not let go of my dreams. You seem to be very talented in fabricating out of dreams. But just remember that all work and no play leaves Jack a dull boy. Work hard, play hard and keep it balanced in that respect ... less you lose interest in both.

55 is young. I'll not see that number again. Ten years older than you and still enjoy the sea and all she shows me. What the sea will teach you is yet a lesson in the next chapter maybe. But it's definately one you will enjoy as you grow older.

So Happy Birthday Gary!


My newest pride the S/V Inseagal


The Proud Captain (me)

As one of the members on this board once said, "The Macgregor is a Boat Kit".

And that it is. You will never be done with all the coolest mods you will want to do. And that is what makes this such a facinating boat.

Tom