weak rudders

[bahama bound]

o.k now im trying to get my x fitted out to take south this spring ,i keep hearing that the rudders and castings are weak on the early 26 x ,so my question is should i not take this boat anywhere offshore without getting spares ?can they be upgraded ?what do you guys that cruise your x's do about the rudders ?

[DaveB]

I have the original aluminum brackets aand rudders, I like both of them and have sailed in winds up to 30 knots but always with sails trimed proper and a 10-15 degree heel up to 20-25 in gusts.
I would consider them ok for the Bahamas but watch out for the Northerners .
I would just use the Lee rudder for the crossing. That way you have a backup.
Twin rudders are only needed over a 18-25 degree heel tacking.
Ck the wear in rudders pin, you may need to increse bolt size.
I actually like the early shorter rudders and they perform well in shallow waters, no rudders perform unless they are all the way down in a Mac.X
Dave

o.k now im trying to get my x fitted out to take south this spring ,i keep hearing that the rudders and castings are weak on the early 26 x ,so my question is should i not take this boat anywhere offshore without getting spares ?can they be upgraded ?what do you guys that cruise your x's do about the rudders ?

[Doupirate]

Under sails, the rudders should be a fringe steering equipement.

Your main sail should be trimmed to provide you with a reasonnable 15-25 heel. The furler, on the other hand, should be trimmed so the wheel, if left alone, would be, on average, neutral. The rudders when at angle, slow down the boat. You want them neutral. With the waves, you will have to adjust, since the relative wind varies as you climb or ride down the wave, hence creating the need for slightly adjusting the rudders by hand. On a lake, once my sheets are adjusted, I am proud to leave the wheel unattended while going to the can for a full no.2 ...steady as she goes.

When the weather is so bad the main at second reef still makes the boat heel in excess, you just take the main out, put on a little furler and flee in whatever direction the wind will take you. Easy said, not easy done. Be patient and resilient...

The amount of genoea is driven by the amount of water you can tolerate comming in the cockpit from behind. But, the lesser sheets out, the shorter the pain...as the weather system will overrun you quicker...

The problems, for any sort of boat, begin when, beaten by breaking waves, the hull is forced to skid sideways. No rudder can resist that for long... But we are now talking Beaufort 6 and above. If you are there with your Mac, you have sort of a planning problem.... In any ways, just run away downwind...

If your rudders are down, just motor slow, especially if they are partially raised. Let the boat skid....

My two cents.

[March]

I was in the same situation last spring. We decided to cross the GulfStream with no spare aluminum rudder brackets--as carefully as we could. Sailed and motored in the Bahamas for six weeks. Never exceeded 5mps with the rudders down. We made it back successfully, but upon a closer examination at home, one rudder bracket was cracked--not all the way through, but enough to make me think we were VERY lucky.
By the way, I already lost one bracket earlier on. This one was the spare. I guess I will have both beefed up (there is a mod in this respect, in the mod section) for next summer.
Replacing the aluminum brackets with the newer, steel ones, would be the way to go, but that would be quite expensive. You will need to change the whole shebang, not only the brackets (can't remember the terminology, but the BWY people will sell you the whole outfit--and tell you what it's called)

[Herschel]

I have a 1998 26X with the stock rudders and brackets. While I do not use my boat off shore at all (I am on inland waters and rivers of Florida), I have never had any problems with them...with one exception! Once I grounded on a sand bar and, after starting my engine, released my rudders without taking them all the way up. At one point in the half up/half down position and turning the engine hard to one side, the prop bit into one of the rudders and took about a 4"x2" chunk out of it. I have since repaired it, but I certainly learned to always have the rudders all the way up or all the way down while motoring at any speed.

[Ixneigh]

By now the board probably knows how I feel about the power sailor rudder system

Have a spare or alternate rudder system if you go to the Bahamas, or beef up existing until you feel it's so tough it couldn't possibly give you a problem. Then it will be barely strong enough.
The times I've been to the Bahamas (not yet on my M) it was windy as crp. If you want to sail anywhere you'll be sailing the boat pretty hard, in some open stretch of water, and also some pretty deep places. The leg from Chub key to NP island is so notorious that even the big boys in the 35-45 ft range wait for good conditions. I had at the time a 23 ft full keeled sloop with a total weight of 7500 lbs. The boat, her gear sails and rudder were nearly bulletproof and I was happy for that fact as I sailed everywhere, usually with the rail underwater, often at night, and always alone.
I took my venture 22.2 over one year, after I put an additional rudder pintle/gudeon set on, plus redid the whole rudder. Conditions on the banks, not surprisingly, deteriorated to 20-25 k out of the southeast, with very short steep 5 foot chop. The boat held together but I was happy for the rigging upgrades and reinforced rudder. While I have not sailed the X model very often, in the M, the last thing I want is for the rudders to fall off under sail. Far from land and in anything other then millpond flat sea conditions, replacement will be impossible. Now the boat is essentially unmanageable. At least I have not been able to sail mine without her rudders. Sure you can motor or motor sail and steer with the lower unit, but your not going to want to do that for many miles.
I have the plastic idarudder blades but I'll probably have a replacement SS bracket before I go to the Bahamas.

Ixneigh

[Divecoz]

I have a question? Or 2 ? .......
Are you really planning to sail all the way across?
Depending on where you leave from ( Marathon or there abouts) and your arrival point.. This is in or about 60=70 mile trip.. Holding 4 = 5 mph that's 12 to 16 hours.. Not All .... but numerous folks have posted here and on other sites and personal web sites that they Motor / Sail... HOLDING 5 = 7 mph. Some have Powered... a goodly portion of the trip .. Getting said trip down to about 8 to 10 hours.. Motoring alone could put you in the 6 hour neighborhood.. Gas is available through out the Bahamas.. though its cost is more than state side..
I realize The Weather can or may dictate what you do.. On my long term get-ta-ways....I carry 30 gallons on board my M and would for that trip for sure..
I have yet to , be behind the wheel for that long... I did have cause? Reason? To make a 30+ mile trip, in one foul swoop, one time..
I was a loooong day.. and only about a 1/3rd the amount of time needed to make the Bahamas crossing.. Do You Have Auto-pilot?
6 = 14 hours is a long day....

[dlandersson]

Ixneigh in the Bahamas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=T4FIS1FnOQg

By now the board probably knows how I feel about the power sailor rudder system

The times I've been to the Bahamas (not yet on my M) it was windy as crp. Ixneigh

[Catigale]

I have the plastic idarudder blades but I'll probably have a replacement SS bracket before I go to the Bahamas.

Worth thinking about - I can't imagine trying to do this replacement at sea......

[Divecoz]

True True.. However Big Keel Boats have lost their Keels.. BKB's have Been De-masted .. YOU Cannot.... prepare for every worse case scenario.. Very Very Few Mac's have broken Rudders... or Boards . be they swing or dagger.. I am not sure if ANY have ever broken either under sailing conditions .. even extreme sailing conditions.. Unlike a keel boat if all HULL breaks loose you lower that 50 HP and get the HULL out of Dodge

I have the plastic idarudder blades but I'll probably have a replacement SS bracket before I go to the Bahamas.

Worth thinking about - I can't imagine trying to do this replacement at sea......

[Ixneigh]

Lol Ixneigh in the Bahamas
I actually don't like being out in nasty conditions. When those ass kicking northers come through i want to be parked on some shallow flats far from the big guys jammed in the tiny cuts and harbors. Why else would I have a boat like the mac? But even with planning and weather monitoring I've been stuck out in "wtf am I doing out here" weather.
Weather in the Bahamas is not like the mainland. There is no NOAA.
You have to listen to the obituaries out of nassau and hope you don't miss it or maybe have a ssb and listen to Herb.
Even then who knows what you'll get on the banks but it's hardly ever flat.
Sometimes you just have to grit your teeth and go. I waited for two weeks in chub key but finally left after the winds abated to twenty from the past weeks twenty five to thirty. I cracked two mounting bolts of the outboard bracket but we did get into paradise island that evening. I averaged three knots vmg and I doubt an M would have been much faster. You would have pounded yourself senseless. Once you get down to great exuma I hardly even bother listening to the weather because half the time it's wrong anyway. Never went to the abacos but I hear it's windy in the winter time there also.

[DaveB]

Crossing the Gulf Stream is easy if you have a 3 day window and same comeing back. You will probably leave in the Biscane Bay area well South of Miami to take advantage of the 3 Knot northern current to land at Bimini or Cat Key.
If you start to feel to much heel, bring up windward rudder, but you should have reefed the moment you thought you should have.
Never leave Miami for Bimini in a aproching Cold front, do it after the front goes thru.
Dave

True True.. However Big Keel Boats have lost their Keels.. BKB's have Been De-masted .. YOU Cannot.... prepare for every worse case scenario.. Very Very Few Mac's have broken Rudders... or Boards . be they swing or dagger.. I am not sure if ANY have ever broken either under sailing conditions .. even extreme sailing conditions.. Unlike a keel boat if all HULL breaks loose you lower that 50 HP and get the HULL out of Dodge

I have the plastic idarudder blades but I'll probably have a replacement SS bracket before I go to the Bahamas.

Worth thinking about - I can't imagine trying to do this replacement at sea......

[Zoran]

Well I am certainly one that had several issues with 97 rudders and aluminum brackets. I had both of my rudders split on the portion that is out of the water from the pressure while sailing and motoring. I also had my aluminum brackets cracked boh. I beefed them up with aditional plates and now my rudders are off as my brackets are toast again. They are usualy damaged on heavy seas when either slow powering or sailing you cannot avoid surfing big swells and in these situations specialy when sailing weather helm is huge and there is a lot of pressure on the rudders. Since my last repair when I actualy grinded the cracks on the rudders and filled them with fiberglass cloth and added two additional wraps of the cloth around, rudders are holding great and there is no cracks. However I was not carefull and while repairing one of the rudders ended up not straight and now I am debating wih myself what to do. I will either have to rebuild it by grinding one side and building fiberglass on the other or split it again and try to repeat repair process but leaving the rudder straight. The first option is scary as I am not sure how thick will fiberglass be on the grinded side leaving me with potentialy weak rudder. The second option looks better at this point.
I am definitely fabricating stainless steel brackets but wandering if i should build new rudders with newer X style. This will in fact make brackets much smaller and stronger as the pivoting point of the rudders will be closer ro the control arm, therefore reducing the pressure on the brackets.
Wish me a good luck on this winter project and if you have any god advice or previous experience please help.