MacGregorSailors.com

I did not want to hijack a previous thread which this quote is from:

Given a favorable weather window, you are much safer 50 miles offshore than 5 miles offshore which is safer than 1 mile offshore, which is much safer than 500 feet offshore.

500 feet offshore, especially a lee shore, might be a problem. But five or ten miles?

Phil M

Almost any statement can be correct if you either take it out of context or don't consider all the variables and this would especially apply to sailing and in particular a boat like a macgregor, we have one advantage over most small yachts and that is a larger motor but also a few disadvantages to throw into the equation before any statement about offshore cruising anytime can be considered.
Given the weather conditions and forecast are ok and you have navigation etc I would still be sticking fairly close to the coast unless making a crossing that may save a lot of miles and fuel by hugging the coast and enjoying the scenery, besides would be looking for a nice little cove or estuary to try fishing/exploring/camping in mostly.
note a weather window can change fairly quickly especially here in remote areas and 50 mile offshore is a long way to get not only to shore but to suitable spot on shore to find shelter and could be well over 50 miles.

In a place like the Gulf and coastal waters in Florida, the closer you get to shore, the rougher the waves often get, closer and choppier - offshore, where the water is a little deeper, the swells may be larger, but they're further apart and flatter topped. Since FL is on a shelf, the water gets shallower in steps, especially on the west coast, and the waves have time to stand up more and become sharper...so I could see this being applicable in certain cases, but it's kinda hard to tell what they were meaning by the comment.

It stil doesn't negate Boblee's post. With a few exceptions, fifty miles off shore is not the place for most Mac's.

Ray

Phil M wrote:I did not want to hijack a previous thread which this quote is from:

Given a favorable weather window, you are much safer 50 miles offshore than 5 miles offshore which is safer than 1 mile offshore, which is much safer than 500 feet offshore.

500 feet offshore, especially a lee shore, might be a problem. But five or ten miles?

Phil M

Probably we would all agree that Boblee’s comment is highly relevant here.

As I recall, Phil, the original statement was made by a very gutsy guy, with regard to his single-handed sailing in a Mac from Washington partway up the west side of Vancouver Island. My recollection is that he wore a flotation or survival suit full time, and was willing to put up with some serious tossing about and general discomfort. He was not simply on a quiet gunkholing trip or daysail (although he did not specify his goal). And as I recall, he was operating with budgetary constraint. The waters in this area can show the phenomenon described by vizwhiz - depth-related wave variation, with typically less steep chop farther out.

I could imagine that a person looking for an offshore Pacific-North-West challenge might take comfort in the fact that Macs float even when flooded … particularly if they wear a survival suit and ‘feel lucky’. It has after all been pointed out that, in spite of what Mac detractors may warn, Macs don’t seem to unzip and come apart.

But personally I would consider this kind of way-offshore deadly-cold-water(!!!) trip to be sort of the MacGregor equivalent of those who climb glacier-bearing mountains alone, with minimal equipment and no oxygen so they can make a quick dash to the top and back. I find it great to poke about off the west coast of Vancouver Island … in beautiful weather and within a few miles of a cozy anchorage.

Kittiwake

On New Years eve, I decided to go look at the local bar as it had been big due to some cyclonic swells up north and some high winds.

Before I realized it, I was at that point of no return where you simply have to go!! I dont really know how big that swell was in the bar but in troughs I could certainly not see the horizon when standing up in the cockpit, just a wall of water in front of me. I'm guestimating at 3 to 4 metres and very close together. I have seen 10 metres (from a warship back in my Navy days) but have not done big seas in a small boat...

I can say that I was crapping myself, but mostly because I had my young children and wife onboard. We got through it and then came the time to turn around and come back in which was obviously when I really started crapping It actually turned out to be a non-event. For me, this experience did two things, firstly surprised me in how well the Mac handled it! (I'm glad I was not in a standard trailer sailer ). but also, made me realize that I would never go too far off shore in this, or any other trailer sailer for that matter. Some light coastal hopping if the weather is deffinately going to be good - but I personally would not even consider taking a boat like this 50 miles to sea - well not with my family and my boat anyway.

I'd happily go out there on someone elses Mac as long as we had an Epirb and decent safety gear

We must not forget that the Mac is built as an inshore, Category “C” boat – suitable for waves up to 2 meters and force 6 winds on the Beaufort scale. That basically says it all.

However, as some have already pointed out and as many of us know and have experienced, the Mac has proven to be dependable in conditions in excess of the limits for which it is rated. This doesn’t mean it will ever become an offshore boat nor will it ever compare to one. But you can count on the Mac if you get caught out in unfavorable conditions, combined with your level of seamanship, to overcome the obstacles and make it home safely.

The distance from shore that makes it safe (on any boat) will vary as the prevailing parameters change and, once again, boils down to good judgment and sound seamanship.

Another angle to the statement/argument that PhilM puts forward could be that in extreme weather conditions that last for several days on end you are better off being in the middle of the ocean way out at sea rather than anywhere close to a shore so that you have enough space around you to allow for drift, errors in navigation, inability to steer a straight course, leeway, possible lack of maneuverability due to damage to your boat, etc. etc.

I think in a Mac you will have headed back home well before those conditions expanded.

Happy Power Sailing

Octaman

As an aside the features that make the Mac a Not Offshore Boat are the very ones we bought it for. No boat can do everything. That the Mac can do so many in a pinch is wonderful.

Phil M wrote:...........500 feet offshore, especially a lee shore, might be a problem. But five or ten miles?

Phil M

If you read Buck's trip log....

http://lbucko.tripod.com/index.html

...where he went from Calif. to Panama he headed out a couple times and in his situation it sure looks like it was the best thing to do. Now saying that I'd never attempt a trip like his in a Mac and put myself in a situation where I had to take that action,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

When it comes to the subject of extreme uses of one's Mac, Mad Max probably gets the prize. I don't know if he ever attempted the Hawaii trip he once posted about. He did though make mods to his . One of which I recall was much stronger rudders. If I remember correctly, he felt that the standard rudders would not survive ocean conditions. He also only had a very small horsepower motor.

Ray

Hi Kittiwake,

Would you tell us more about your trips to the west side of Vancouver Island? I've been there a number of times in a kayak and once took my West Wight Potter to the Broken Islands, but I haven't taken my 26 X up yet.

Thanks,

Bill

I think Mac26Mpaul really puts his finger on an issue - it's one thing to 'feel lucky' when you're soloing, and quite another when you have your family along or others who trust you. Of course even soloing at risk potentially puts would-be rescuers in harm's way.

I must read more about Buck and Mad Max. When I do 'exciting' areas of the west coast exposed to the open Pacific, I am trailering a goodly distance and (sacrilege!) leaving my mast and rudders at home for simplicity. I take along a good dinghy and a well-maintained get-home motor; but as colleagues above have indicated, my worst scares have been when forced to run in heavy seas close to crashing surf on the way to safety ... and in these conditions there would be no time to fire up a secondary motor or repair steering systems. Once again though, special Mac features such as 12"-depth-requirement and light weight give me confidence that I could bail out of many situations using a long and stout sculling/steering oar.

Bill that is nice of you to ask. Funny thing is, if you have taken a Kayak and WW Potter into the Broken Group Islands on the west coast of Vancouver Island, you have already seen and done some of the very best bits and in a beautiful way. As you know, that is a fine collection of endless tiny coves, isolated scenery, and wildlife ... all on the doorstep of raging surf and views to Japan. We probably should keep quiet about it or everyone will be trading in their big expensive boats for Macs ... and crowding us out of the quiet spots. Most of the comfortable boats there have had to fight their way for at least a week through tiring (and nauseating) wind and waves just to get there, while we show up fresh and keen from a local launch ramp.

We should think about getting some of this web site's rowdies together for a meet in Barkley Sound ... as long as they promise not to laugh at a mastless Mac.

Kittiwake

Hi Kittiwake,

Yes, I've been very fortunate to see a lot of the west coast of VI over the years-hiked the west coast trail a couple of times and watched a fishing boat run the Nitinat Narrows, taken my kayak on the Lady Rose out to the Broken Islands, sailed on the Uchuk III to Ukluet for a paddle to the Bunsby Islands, and paddled through the Broughton Archipelago. I was always amazed by how few boats I saw: a few commercial fishing boats, some kayaks and the occasional trailered fishing boat. The road access to the inside of inlets would make it seem to be a trailer sailor's paradise, but I've never seen another trailerable sailboat there.

I launched the Potter out of Bamfield for the Broken Islands, but the 60 miles of washboard logging road took it's toll. The extrusion on my roller furling broke due to all of the vibration, and several other things shook loose on and in the boat. I wouldn't want to take a mac over that road, but launching out of Port Alberni wouldn't be hard. It's a good, paved road all the way. The Broken Islands would be a long day to reach but doable. I've only ever seen two or three keel boats there in the 3 weeks I've spent in the park. They are understandably deterred by the distance and difficulty of coming around the island and all of the poorly charted rocks in the area. It would be a a great place for a Mac Messabout, wouldn't it?

Tell me more about your sculling oar, please. I've been thinking about something like that since this summer's mis-adventure. The engine died while the new girlfriend and I were out in the south sound. We sailed home under a full moon, but the wind died about midnight. The last 100 yards took about an hour. A sculling oar would have been just the trick to get home.

Thanks,

Bill

one of my goal is to sail Nitnat Lake this is the entrance from the west coast of Vancouver Island
slack high tide is when you have to transit the narrows.
http://youtu.be/UjuTwMR8KMU
big Kite & windsurfing destination
http://youtu.be/A5RgI0Ogip0

Thanx for that Gater