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Rudders - NACA Airfoil Calculations

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:05 pm
by vizwhiz
There have been several "broken rudder" threads lately, and there have been discussions about modifications to rudders on this forum in the past... Some, both recently and in the past, have suggested or even actually undertaken the task of building a rudder from scratch on their own.

Also, I have been to the Idasailor (Rudder Craft) website and noticed that their rudders, which everyone really likes as they perform well and are built well, are NACA 0012 airfoil designs (the cross-section shape). Well, NACA airfoil designs have been publicly available for decades...nothing private or hidden.

So, as a good-faith effort to help out my fellow sailors and make our Mac's perform better than other boats out there :wink: , I developed a little spreadsheet that will calculate the coordinates of a NACA 00xx symmetrical airfoil for you... For the sake of this post, width or chord is the rudder measurement from leading edge to trailing edge, thickness is just that (like how much meat is on your sammich), and length or depth will mean the top-to-bottom measurement of the rudder (as in, how far it sticks down into the water).

You need the chord dimension you want to use. I found that Idasailor on their website shows their chord dimensions when you look at the rudder for your particular model boat. However, you may want to experiment with slightly wider or thinner rudders to see how it affects your performance...for example, with a good airfoil design, you might be able to get away with skinnier rudders, less drag, better performance...perhaps at the expense of slow-speed performance. (I suspect 1/2" width differences won't make an appreciable difference in whether the boat steers or not...I like to use even numbers and/or 1/2" increments, for example, so instead of 11.387562" I would use 11" or 11-1/2".)

You also need the NACA airfoil design you want. The 0012 is the one Idasailor uses, and is probably a proven one (which may be why they chose it), as a compromise between lift and drag. However, you can use the same spreadhseet to develop a 0009 or a 0015 profile just as easily. In the spreadsheet, you'll just enter the last two digits of the profile pattern you want.

The last thing you have to do is insert your measurement points. The spreadsheet will calculate the 1/2 thickness at each of your points along the chord. so if you want a rough shape, you can just enter 1-inch or 1/2-inch increments, or if you want fine detail, you can enter as many increments as you'd like...

Anyone who's interested, just PM me your email address and I'll send it to you...if there was a way to post it here, I'd gladly do that... :)

Last comment - this is meant in no way to undermine what Idasailor (Rudder Craft) offers - they offer a fine product which many on this forum have praised. If you can afford to buy one, that's by far the easiest choice. If you're a die-hard do-it-yourselfer, or can't afford their products and want to tackle a project like this, I hope this helps give you a good tool to use.

Also, please note that there are many other factors that go into a proper rudder, such as material selection, etc. I have not addressed these because I'm not the guy to do that... :wink:

Re: Rudders - NACA Airfoil Calculations

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:39 pm
by Divecoz
Well I for one need to go back and review a LOT of posts about Rudder Modifications.. With what you offer and by holding Masterebs feet to a flame? Maybe I can come up with a better set of rudders.. My Brother does beautiful Glass work and has a source for reasonably priced carbon fiber..
I'll send you my email in a PM..

Re: Rudders - NACA Airfoil Calculations

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:03 pm
by DaveB
I have had two Ida rudders, one on my Potter 19 and another on my Compac 19. Ida rudders have improved performance on both boats but original rudders were flat plate aluminum and cannot compare to the Mac. rudders as they are foil shape and give excellent performance, even the older style that I still use.
I did redo my rudders by adding polyester resin to fill the top 8 inches of board and filled bottom about 6 inches and regelcoated them.Water still fills the remaining void in rudders for balance.
The rudder is well ballanced and head is reinforced.
I also use a quick cam release if rudders do hit a object and have had no problems as tey have flipped up a few times.Without them I am sure I would have snaped a rudder or two.
Only way I can see to snap a rudder is grounding,hard object or a fluke wave that has so much force at the side. The Auto Quick release should activate saveing your rudders.
Dave
vizwhiz wrote:There have been several "broken rudder" threads lately, and there have been discussions about modifications to rudders on this forum in the past... Some, both recently and in the past, have suggested or even actually undertaken the task of building a rudder from scratch on their own.

Also, I have been to the Idasailor (Rudder Craft) website and noticed that their rudders, which everyone really likes as they perform well and are built well, are NACA 0012 airfoil designs (the cross-section shape). Well, NACA airfoil designs have been publicly available for decades...nothing private or hidden.

So, as a good-faith effort to help out my fellow sailors and make our Mac's perform better than other boats out there :wink: , I developed a little spreadsheet that will calculate the coordinates of a NACA 00xx symmetrical airfoil for you... For the sake of this post, width or chord is the rudder measurement from leading edge to trailing edge, thickness is just that (like how much meat is on your sammich), and length or depth will mean the top-to-bottom measurement of the rudder (as in, how far it sticks down into the water).

You need the chord dimension you want to use. I found that Idasailor on their website shows their chord dimensions when you look at the rudder for your particular model boat. However, you may want to experiment with slightly wider or thinner rudders to see how it affects your performance...for example, with a good airfoil design, you might be able to get away with skinnier rudders, less drag, better performance...perhaps at the expense of slow-speed performance. (I suspect 1/2" width differences won't make an appreciable difference in whether the boat steers or not...I like to use even numbers and/or 1/2" increments, for example, so instead of 11.387562" I would use 11" or 11-1/2".)

You also need the NACA airfoil design you want. The 0012 is the one Idasailor uses, and is probably a proven one (which may be why they chose it), as a compromise between lift and drag. However, you can use the same spreadhseet to develop a 0009 or a 0015 profile just as easily. In the spreadsheet, you'll just enter the last two digits of the profile pattern you want.

The last thing you have to do is insert your measurement points. The spreadsheet will calculate the 1/2 thickness at each of your points along the chord. so if you want a rough shape, you can just enter 1-inch or 1/2-inch increments, or if you want fine detail, you can enter as many increments as you'd like...

Anyone who's interested, just PM me your email address and I'll send it to you...if there was a way to post it here, I'd gladly do that... :)

Last comment - this is meant in no way to undermine what Idasailor (Rudder Craft) offers - they offer a fine product which many on this forum have praised. If you can afford to buy one, that's by far the easiest choice. If you're a die-hard do-it-yourselfer, or can't afford their products and want to tackle a project like this, I hope this helps give you a good tool to use.

Also, please note that there are many other factors that go into a proper rudder, such as material selection, etc. I have not addressed these because I'm not the guy to do that... :wink:

Re: Rudders - NACA Airfoil Calculations

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:51 pm
by Divecoz
Thats a mod I need to add..
DaveB wrote:I also use a quick cam release if rudders do hit a object and have had no problems as tey have flipped up a few times.Without them I am sure I would have snaped a rudder or two.
Only way I can see to snap a rudder is grounding,hard object or a fluke wave that has so much force at the side. The Auto Quick release should activate saveing your rudders.
Dave

Re: Rudders - NACA Airfoil Calculations

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:07 pm
by mastreb
Divecoz wrote:Thats a mod I need to add..
DaveB wrote:I also use a quick cam release if rudders do hit a object and have had no problems as tey have flipped up a few times.Without them I am sure I would have snaped a rudder or two.
Only way I can see to snap a rudder is grounding,hard object or a fluke wave that has so much force at the side. The Auto Quick release should activate saveing your rudders.
Dave
Ditto--DaveB, which quick cams do you have, and do you know the tension they're set at?

Re: Rudders - NACA Airfoil Calculations

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:28 pm
by phoenixtoohot
I've been looking at these, but think the may be too small ... max 1/4 inch lines. http://www.clamcleat.com/cleats/cleat_d ... ?theid2=78 They are available at West Marine.

Image

Re: Rudders - NACA Airfoil Calculations

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:32 am
by The Mutt
phoenixtoohot wrote:I've been looking at these, but think the may be too small ... max 1/4 inch lines. http://www.clamcleat.com/cleats/cleat_d ... ?theid2=78 They are available at West Marine.

Image

I e-mailed Clamcleat and asked if their CL257 Auto Release Cleat would work with a Macgregor 26X rudders, here is the reply


Hello Glenn,

Yes, I think the CL257 will be very suitable for you. We show dinghies in our illustrations because that was our first application, but it is used a lot for shallow water cruisers. The ideal rope size is 5mm.
Download the "Information leaflet" at the bottom of this page
http://www.clamcleat.com/cleats/cleat_d ... ?theid2=78
Remember to set the "cam" to minimum release load when first fitted and increase until it does not release under normal sailing conditions.

This cleat is successfully used by a lot of sailors and I am sure you will be pleased with it.

Regards
Dale

Dale Emery [email protected]
for and on behalf of
Clamcleats Ltd
Watchmead....Welwyn Garden City....Hertfordshire AL7 1AP....England
Tel +44 (0)1707 330101......Fax +44 (0)1707 321269....
http://www.clamcleat.com



I've ordered two ... 8)

Fair Winds
Glenn

Re: Rudders - NACA Airfoil Calculations

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:57 am
by Kenr74
When I made my new rudder I went online and did the foil calculations and printed off a cross section that I taped to the wood blank I made. It was very easy to shape the foil with a hand power plane and belt sander. I am very happy with the result, but I have nothing to compare it to as I never sailed with the old rudder, and never sailed in my life before this summer. Incidently, I am addicted now, and can't wait to get out again. Thanks to everyone on this board for all the help and encouragement.

Re: Rudders - NACA Airfoil Calculations

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:19 am
by mdeane
phoenixtoohot wrote:I've been looking at these, but think the may be too small ... max 1/4 inch lines. http://www.clamcleat.com/cleats/cleat_d ... ?theid2=78 They are available at West Marine.

Image

I added this mod last winter and glad I did. We've had a couple of encounters since, they popped up as advertised avoiding damaged or broken rudders. I too thought they may be too small but have found the 1/4" line and clamcleat up to the job. We started out with them set at their lowest resistance and have not had to increase the setting.

:macm:

Marc 8)

Re: Rudders - NACA Airfoil Calculations

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:16 pm
by vizwhiz
Kenr74 wrote:When I made my new rudder I went online and did the foil calculations and printed off a cross section that I taped to the wood blank I made. It was very easy to shape the foil with a hand power plane and belt sander. I am very happy with the result, but I have nothing to compare it to as I never sailed with the old rudder, and never sailed in my life before this summer. Incidently, I am addicted now, and can't wait to get out again. Thanks to everyone on this board for all the help and encouragement.
Pictures of your rudder in-progress and completed maybe? 8)