New "Experience"

[TAM]

After a great day of sailing Wednesday, we finished up with dinner at the Chesapeake Inn. While motoring home, we had some issues. Just as we left the C&D Canal and entered the Elk River, I noticed some strange electrical issues. First the Bow lights went out, then the GPS rebooted. The engine, an Honda BF50a, suddenly sputtered and dropped from 3k rpm to idle. I lowered the throttle and advanced again, but couldn't get any power. I had the presence of mind to steer out of the channel to see what might be happening. I put the throttle in neutral and the engine died and wouldn't turn over to restart. We were now floating with no power, no wind, no lights in the dark. I went blow and found that the battery selector was in the off position. I must have kicked it after starting the engine. When I turned it back on I had power to the cabin lights, but the engine would still not start. I checked the fuses on the engine and they looked fine. My passenger was starting to worry as we watched large commercial barges pass within 100 feet.

I still had the trolling motor I had purchased for our dingy but never used. I pulled one of the batteries from the compartment below the ladder and hung the electric motor off the back, hoping to have enough power to keep us out off the channel while I radioed for help. I was very surprised when the little thing had no issue moving us along. I was able to go about a mile up river and tie up for the night.

Root cause - the BF50a has a charging coil, not an alternator. It was never designed to power all our electronics by itself. The added load and current fried the ICM.

Leasons learned -

Keep the electic motor on board!
Purchase battery powered backup navi lights!
Purchased handheld VHF!
Install cover for battery selector!

Cool heads survive!! Keeping my calm got us oput of a really dangerous situation!!!!


Terry

[Divecoz]

Replace Battery Switch with a Rotary Selector Switch..That's what I would guess 90% of us have.. Have as well dedicated Batteries and the capability to select and even CHANGE .. their purpose.. again Rotary Switch.. http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... &id=713105
I am no less than surprised in the output of your Honda.. My Merc Powers all my electronics and lights and CD player and still has enough to charge my 3 batteries.. and .....Mercury does not have the largest available charging capacity of all the 50 HP outboards.. To Me that's just another strike against Honda 50 HP Outboards..

[robbarnes1965]

Welcome!

It sounds like you have the same setup as me (not sure which version Honda bf 50).

I find my motor charges fine and handles all my electrics. I am no electrician but I believe you overloaded the charger by having the battery selector in the off position. That power had to go somewhere. I would have though the fuse would blow but I am not sure how that works.

Glad it worked out safely.

Rob

[Russ]

According to Honda, that motor has a 17amp alternator.
http://marine.honda.com/Products/modeldetail/BF50

That ought to be enough for most of what you would run off it, running lights, radio, GPS.

What may have happened is when the batt switch got turned to OFF, it fried the electronics on the charging system. Many of these are not designed to run, as you alluded to, without a battery load. Good lesson for us all to NOT run the motor with battery switch in the OFF position.

I assume this is tied to the starting system and that's why you couldn't start it back up. Some motors come with an emergency pull cord (my Suzi 70 does) and that might be a good backup. Frankly, I don't have much confidence in my ability to pull start that thing.

Glad you stayed calm and got back safely.

[Tomfoolery]

Some motors come with an emergency pull cord (my Suzi 70 does) and that might be a good backup. Frankly, I don't have much confidence in my ability to pull start that thing.

My pull cord is on the waterproof bag that I keep the handheld VHF in. I can pull the cord, take out the radio, and call TowBoat US, which is based in the river where I keep my boat.

The fat one with the handle that came with my BF50 will probably never get used, as I too am not confident in my abilities to pull that hard any more. Something to do with no cartilage being left in my shoulders . . .

[Miss_Dallie]

Sorry to hear about your experience and am glad you kept a calm head and got you and your guest home safely.

I have the rotory switch for battery selection and it's tucked away under the aft table seat. Impossible to accidentally turn off. Your post opened my eyes, I would think that the motor's charging system would handle the (normal) load of your boat. I need to check the output load of my engines (Evinrude E-TEC 60) charging system. I hope the cost of the ICM isn't too expensive.

I had a scare on Tuesday regarding starting the engine and having dead batteries. It was a just-in-time learning experience too. I plugged into shore power to charge my three batteries before going out since I just intalled a stereo and knew we were going to listen to it while sailing. We were listening to music while motoring through the bay on battery 1. When we got out in the open water the main was raised and the motor shut off, I didn't switch over to battery 2, figuring I would use it to start the motor if needed. After sailing around for a couple of hours while listening to music I decide to check battery 2 (something inside said to check it) and I'm glad I did. Battery 2 (two batteries in parallel) completely dead! I secured the VHF, stereo, and Garmin and selected battery 1, lowered the motor and tried to start the engine...nothing! I checked the cabin lights, weak at best but had power. I raised the motor and turned the battery selector to Off and we continued sailing for several more hours; I wasn't going to let this ruin our day.

We decided to go back to the bay and dock for a late lunch, it had been a great full day sailing. We sailed back to the mouth of the bay and decide to try the motor...it started up. We furled the main and had a peaceful stress free lunch.

The lesson I learned... I need to select ALL on the rotory switch in order for all of my batteries to charge. I have them charging as I write this, we are spending several nights out on the boat (anchored) next week, I'm not taking any chances; this was a tremendous lesson to learn and the right time to learn it.

I need to also check on manually starting my motor, I read that it can be done but it didn't come with a rope for manually starting so I need to research this further.

Again, I'm glad you and your guest are ok.

Ron
Miss Dallie

[robbarnes1965]

Funny you guys should mention the pull-start. We had a good thread about this a while back. I still have not implemented the very good suggestion of attempting to pull-start the engine at the dock. My one attempt on the water did not go well. That motor does not start like a 5hp! You will probably find that you have to rig a block somewhere in order to pull in a straight line without smashing your elbow on the pedestal or other object.

That said, I have gotten out of one very sticky situation by (very quickly) unfurling the genoa and sailing the boat to a mooring outside the marina. ( I was going to the gas dock and held the forward dockline in my hand and the aft one in my teeth. I missed my approach with the strong wind and the resulting swearing released the aft line which caught on the prop...)

Rob

[TAM]

Divecoz - I have a Perco selector. Similar to the Blue Seas, but the selector knob stick out. Maybe I'll change it.

robbarnes1965 - You might be on to something. Perhaps there wasn't enough resistance with the batteries out of the picture and thus higher current.

The worst part is that the ICMs supposedly don't die very often, so no one stocks them. 3-4 days from Honda then 1 day to me. I have one on order, but still looking for someone with one in stock.

Looks like I might not get out for the fourth.

I'm thinking about replacing the Honda with something else. I've had a lot of minor issues with it over the past few years. Anyone want to buy a temperamental outboard...?

[Steve K]

and held the forward dockline in my hand and the aft one in my teeth. I missed my approach with the strong wind and the resulting swearing released the aft line which caught on the prop...)

Rob

Hi all,

Rob give the choppers and the prop a break. Could lose one if a dock line happened to catch something along the way
(I'm missing five, right up front didn't really lose them that way though......'nother story)

Instead tie the ends of both dock lines together with a loose square knot, or a bow knot. Let them hang along side (if too long hitch the center to the shrouds. This makes it very easy to step off the boat, onto the dock, grab both dock lines anywhere along the side of the boat and control everything easily.
Now, standing on the dock you can untie the ends of the dock lines, grab a cleat with one while still holding the other. Tie the first line towards it's end. Then find your cleat for the second dock line and tie it up. Then, you can go back and haul up and retie the first one.

I've come to do this out of habit, I've been doing it so long. I always used to single hand, but I still do it now, even though the wife goes with me most of the time.
And always remember this old salt saying, when docking, "Slow is pro"

I know I have a small Honda four stroke and it's a little different (no electric start, but starts on one pull always), however it has a 60watt charging system. I have 3 batteries, two ten year old, very expensive gel cells (Centennial group 24.... look them up....... and no, I didn't pay that for them....... got them used.......best batteries I ever had), and a Walmart cheap cycle....... or is that deep cycle? (also group24).

I run gps and vhf all of the time (it's one of those old vhfs that really suck power too), with 200watt stereo also going most of the time. Between my outboard and my 5watt solar panel, I've never run low on juice and have be out for 9 days.
As long as I keep my batteries in good shape, when not in use, now worries ever. I do have a switch (off-1-2-all)
My Honda 8hp four stroke doesn't care if batteries are connected, or not, btw

others,
Think you didn't get a pull rope with your 50hp outboard? Found mine hiding up inside the engine cover on my 50hp 4 stroke Merc............ about a year after I had my Xboat

Hope this note doesn't make me sound like a know-it-all.... not intended. I'm pushing 60 and STILL learning everyday, about sailing and everything else

Best Breezes to all,
Steve K.
Mac26 D "Three Sheets"

[Catigale]

Copy of a thread on pull starting a Mercury 50 HP BF

Dive

Procedure is

Remove engine cowl

Remove 10mm bolts holding down cover plate over flywheel hopefully you have this tool in your toolbox. A vicegrip would work in a pinch as they are accessible

The Merc pull start cord lives in a pouch under the cowl, but any piece of cord longer than O.6 Imperial meters will work (2 foot for you Colonials) I actually found the Mercury cord too stretchy and replaced with some cheap stout line from the hardware store.

Wrap knot into notch on flywheel, wrap line around groove.

Power on, RUN button beep....

Now pull firmly and tAngentially to flywheel. I sit on the floor aft of the pedestal for this step.

It never starts first time. If you hit the compression stroke early in the pull, you will feel like you can't possibly turn this motor over this way.the next time you pull it goes easier and you will have running motor in front of you.

Watch out for that spinning flywheel!

Engine cowl goes back on...I leave the cover off in case I have to restart at sea.

Keywords Pull manual rope cord flywheel start Mercury Bigfoot

[Russ]

My 2.5 outboard is hard to pull start if I don't have a good angle. Pull starting a 70 seems like a dislocated shoulder waiting to happen. I suppose it might be worth trying at the dock for extra confidence.

I used to keep a 12v jumper pack onboard for emergency starting. It doesn't take much to start these things. So there's another item worth keeping around if you want more insurance.

I've since realized that my battery combiner/isolator works so well at saving me from myself that I don't keep the jumper pack onboard anymore. Battery 1 only connects to the motor for starting. It's the first to get charged and when voltage hits 13 it combines with the house batts. Disconnects batt 1 from the house once charging stops. It's pretty much idiot proof.
I have drained the house batts several times, but NEVER touched the starting battery. It stays topped off all the time. Love that thing.
Best part is I don't have to remember to switch anything. In a pinch, I could jump the house manually to the starting if needed but I haven't.

[MacTommy]

Most alternators will suffer internal blow up if main switch is turned off while engine still running. I know alternator damage has been caused from the half second used for turning battery selector switch from "1" to "1+2" position, and that was a almost new Volvo inboard diesel.

[Tomfoolery]

Most alternators will suffer internal blow up if main switch is turned off while engine still running. I know alternator damage has been caused from the half second used for turning battery selector switch from "1" to "1+2" position, and that was a almost new Volvo inboard diesel.

This is all true, and is the reason folks should be sure their battery selector is a 'make before break' type. Starting in 1, it will connect to 2 before breaking with 1, and not disconnect from whichever is in use when switching to 1+2. The diodes in an alternator will burn out almost instantly if an open circuit happens.

It's also one of several reasons some boat wiring gurus tell you to wire the OB directly to the start battery, and use a charge combiner/isolator to keep the house batt(s) topped up. You can't damage the alternator, and you'll always have the start battery topped up. All you have to remember to do is shut off the house batt(s) when you leave, if that's what you normally do.

Some small outboards don't need a battery attached at all, like my old Evinrude 9.9 two-stroke. Modern, larger engines, probably not so forgiving.

[robbarnes1965]

and held the forward dockline in my hand and the aft one in my teeth. I missed my approach with the strong wind and the resulting swearing released the aft line which caught on the prop...)

Rob

Hi all,

Rob give the choppers and the prop a break. Could lose one if a dock line happened to catch something along the way
(I'm missing five, right up front didn't really lose them that way though......'nother story)

Best Breezes to all,
Steve K.
Mac26 D "Three Sheets"

That was the first season and I was rushing around. I learned my lesson and just lightly cam cleat the lines I need. Plus, the admiral is a dentist and would lose her mind if she saw me using my teeth for that so I try to avoid it I'd like to hear your stories though

My docking has improved dramatically this year after my ASA courses in March. I use one springline tied to a forward cleat (I have a jib-track mounted one mid way on the boat). As I come alongside the dock I let the engine run at about a touch above idle and turn the wheel away from the dock which does 2 things: 1 - Brings the aft closer to dock making it easier to get off, 2 - when I get off and put a wrap of the forward line on the soon to be aft cleat of the dock, the boat pulls itself back to the dock as the forward momentum of the engine meets resistance to the spring line. The wheel turned away from the dock keeps the aft in and bow away from the dock. You can leave the engine running in forward as you calmly get the lines tied up as the opposing forces of the forward spring and engine keep the boat at the dock. At my slip the prevailing wind is always blowing away from the dock and the boat still does not move away. Slow is pro for sure.

[Steve K]

Rob wrote:

I'd like to hear your stories though

Not a sailing story.

Suffice it to say, in the time and neighborhood I grew up in, things weren't settled with lawsuits. We just used to damage each other until one side submitted...........and I wasn't the submitting type.

Best Breezes,
Steve K.