MacGregorSailors.com

Hello Everyone!!

O.K., I have had a discussion about backing up my 26X into my slip (it has about a foot on each side, if that) and all the words of wisdom to go with it, and STILL having problems!! I could back my 33ft Hunter into this slip easier with one eye shut and one hand tied behind my back, I just don't get it...........

Very little wind, no current to speak of, 50 hp Big foot, blast full, rudders up, CB 1/4 way down (doesn't make a difference up or down..... this last time, engine died on me backing up when I put it into neutral , ended up SIDEWAYS to the pilings after I re-started engine........... ughhhhh just shoot me!!

Anyone want to come over and give me back up lessons.............. arghhhhhhh!

Barry B.

"Use the Force, Barry, use the F.o.r.c.e..."

bbenkert26x wrote:Hello Everyone!!

O.K., I have had a discussion about backing up my 26X into my slip (it has about a foot on each side, if that) and all the words of wisdom to go with it, and STILL having problems!! I could back my 33ft Hunter into this slip easier with one eye shut and one hand tied behind my back, I just don't get it...........

Very little wind, no current to speak of, 50 hp Big foot, blast full, rudders up, CB 1/4 way down (doesn't make a difference up or down..... this last time, engine died on me backing up when I put it into neutral , ended up SIDEWAYS to the pilings after I re-started engine........... ughhhhh just shoot me!!

Anyone want to come over and give me back up lessons.............. arghhhhhhh!

Barry B.

I hear ya buddie, I curse my boatat low speed docking procedures, loading onto the trailer in a breeze is even more of a problem, gonna build side bunks for my trailer

bbenkert26x wrote:Very little wind, no current to speak of, 50 hp Big foot, blast full, rudders up, CB 1/4 way down (doesn't make a difference up or down..... this last time, engine died on me backing up when I put it into neutral , ended up SIDEWAYS to the pilings after I re-started engine........... ughhhhh just shoot me!!

Big difference between a Mac and a keel displacement keel boat.

First problem I see is rudders up. Should be down.
CB should be full down.

Also, my Hunter 34 was great going slow but I had to also factor in sideways blade pressure. My Mac doesn't like to go too slow or I lose fin control.
The Mac also doesn't pivot well on the board. Gotta practice it like a powerboat without a keel.

Practice practice practice.

--Russ

Have you ever seen a Mac out of the water on high blocks with no trailer under her, she looks like a big flat bottom dingy. Almost identical to our little Walker Bay sailing dingy.

My advice is: both Rudders all the way down, and Daggerboard all the way down.

She needs something under the waterline to stop her slipping, otherwise she is pretty much a floating carboard box (so to speak). You mention rudders up and dagger not all down, so she gonna slip sideways. And I don't think she will ever turn like a full keel boat, in my experience ... just not gonna happen. That's part of the compromise.

Good Luck!

Very little wind, no current to speak of, 50 hp Big foot, blast full, rudders up, CB 1/4 way down (doesn't make a difference up or down..... this last time, engine died on me backing up when I put it into neutral , ended up SIDEWAYS to the pilings after I re-started engine........... ughhhhh just shoot me!!

I'll chime in - as much rudder and CB as you can use. Full is preferable.

But the odd part, well another one of them, is that with no power (engine at idle or in neutral), it steers like a keel boat, sort of. With power, it steers like a power boat.

When going slowish with no power, you can steer the stern around in the normal (for a keel boat) way, but when you hit reverse to slow forward motion, the prop will pull you in the opposite direction the rudders are trying to steer you.

So when moving forward and pulling in at a wall, you would come in at an angle, get very close (almost touching the fenders), and put it in reverse to slow and stop. To swing the stern into the wall on a keel boat, you would steer opposite the wall to pull the stern in while moving forward, with the engine in reverse to slow and stop you. With the Mac, you do the same thing until the prop, which is in reverse but directing thrust in exactly the wrong direction, takes over, at which point you cut the wheel towards the wall so the prop can pull you in. A little burst usually helps here. But the directed thrust of the prop when in reverse while the boat is moving forward takes some getting used to.

Same thing happens when backing into some place, putting the engine in forward, and now the stern is doing exactly the opposite of what it was doing a few seconds ago.

Once you master the two-stage slowing and stopping bit, you can grease it in like a pro, taking advantage of the keel and directed thrust for sharp turns, and the rudders for slow, no power turns. Just gotta be quick with the wheel and throttle.

Now crosswinds, that's not fun no matter what.

Perhaps, Grasshopper, the trick is to relax.

Do you have fenders on the slip? I do. And I have a cleat midway on the port side of my boat. I get close, use my boathook to put a line around the center slip pole/mount, and pull it snug - then put all the "normal" lines out so the boat is nicely in the middle.

bbenkert26x wrote:Hello Everyone!!

O.K., I have had a discussion about backing up my 26X into my slip (it has about a foot on each side, if that) and all the words of wisdom to go with it, and STILL having problems!! I could back my 33ft Hunter into this slip easier with one eye shut and one hand tied behind my back, I just don't get it...........

Very little wind, no current to speak of, 50 hp Big foot, blast full, rudders up, CB 1/4 way down (doesn't make a difference up or down..... this last time, engine died on me backing up when I put it into neutral , ended up SIDEWAYS to the pilings after I re-started engine........... ughhhhh just shoot me!!

Anyone want to come over and give me back up lessons.............. arghhhhhhh!

Barry B.

OK, I'll ask the obviuos question, why back it in? Why not drive it in and back it out? Much easier in my opinion, especially if the slip is tight. I agree with tkanzler's idea except I dont know that it needs to be a two stage approach, this probably wont work in such confines as you describe but what I have been pretty successful at is (CB down, rudders down) coming in a lilttle quicker than you would normally at about a 20 degree angle, say walking pace and then quickly reversing the wheel and applying moderate reverse, this slows you down and also walks you sideways towards the dock, if you get it just right the boat simply stops dead a foot or so from the dock and parallel to it (never happens while people are watching though for some reason), I only apply this method when I have a hand on deck, if you get it wrong you dont have time to run forward and stop the inevitable smack in to the dock. It is imperative to remember to reverse the wheel before hitting reverse, otherwise the stern will walk away from the dock and you end up at 45 degrees to it. sure can be confusing though, when I have an audience I just come in extra slow and am happy to have any part of the boat touching the dock at a stand still, then jump off with a rope in your hand and walk it to birth.

Or install one of these: http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/index.php?view=156. Click on the thumbnail pic and you'll see a close up view. Since I posted this a dozen years ago I've lost count of how many times it's come in useful. And especially since MinnKota came out with a wireless remote control you can wear on your wrist.

In addition to the above, if you have a choice, backing to port will allow prop walk to work with, instead of against, your turn. Your Hunter would have had a more prominent prop walk to help you with this than your Mac does though.

Use the force, Luke.

Or, a bow thruster, once removed -

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/in ... ?view=1068

I've had little experience running a Mac & have noticed that the BWYachts instructions say to deploy the daggerboard & rudders down for low speed maneuvering (which to me makes sense), but many boaters say the opposite. Can anyone here comment on that?

Nick

The only reason to not do this is when the depth of the water limits it.

What boaters, where, say otherwise? Non- Mac owners?

Truth is only has about 20 degrees of steering in either direction but I have only had a problem twice once in strong wind and once I just had a off day you need throttle to get it to turn at all So while your going in slow sometimes you need to goose the engine a little to initiate the turn or you just drift in a offset line. I could use more practice myself and I am sure you will get a better feel for the boat however if your engine is cutting out you may want it tuned up because thats a problem for anyone Big, Small, Power or Sail

Yep - THE big hassle with the Mac: maneuvering in tight places! Still experimenting - with mixed results. But I think Tkanzler has the right idea. Will continue to work on it.

But I am very happy with what I've set up once I jump from the boat to the dock. I have set up a rope that goes from the near-bow stanchion along the hull to the near-stern stanchion. (I believe this is called a Snotter). At its lowest point it hangs down nearly to the water - needs to be that long to work properly. To lift it up in the middle - and also to reach it more easily so I can put the fenders inside of it - I have tied a short rope from the mid-stanchion (just forward of the shroud plates) with a loop so the Snotter can slide through it. When I jump off, I grab the Snotter, and I have full control over the bow and the stern. I leave them (one on both sides of the boat) on all the time.

I have heard that yachties who fall overboard with a safety line attached struggle to lift themselves up to get back on board. I don't want to ever have to test it, but I'm envisaging that if this ever happened to me, I'd be able to use the Snotter to walk myself back up to the boat deck.

It comes in handy when launching/retrieving, too.

Will keep practising....... but not today: winds over 100 kph nearby today!

Stan

In Europe, (and other places) backing in is mandatory.

sunshinecoasting wrote:OK, I'll ask the obviuos question, why back it in? Why not drive it in and back it out? Much easier in my opinion, especially if the slip is tight. I agree with tkanzler's idea except I dont know that it needs to be a two stage approach, this probably wont work in such confines as you describe but what I have been pretty successful at is (CB down, rudders down) coming in a lilttle quicker than you would normally at about a 20 degree angle, say walking pace and then quickly reversing the wheel and applying moderate reverse, this slows you down and also walks you sideways towards the dock, if you get it just right the boat simply stops dead a foot or so from the dock and parallel to it (never happens while people are watching though for some reason), I only apply this method when I have a hand on deck, if you get it wrong you dont have time to run forward and stop the inevitable smack in to the dock. It is imperative to remember to reverse the wheel before hitting reverse, otherwise the stern will walk away from the dock and you end up at 45 degrees to it. sure can be confusing though, when I have an audience I just come in extra slow and am happy to have any part of the boat touching the dock at a stand still, then jump off with a rope in your hand and walk it to birth.