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The E-tec is dead a warning to other owners.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 4:24 am
by kadet
I don't want to bag BRP as any brand can have issues, but their business practices and their failed engineering is going to see Evinrude go the way of Johnson and Chrysler outboards.

At the time I got the E-tec in 2008 it's power to weight ratio on the :macm: was the best around and it had the large gear case to spin a 14" diameter prop. By all accounts BRP had fixed OMC's FICHT software problems and the motors were living up to their promised hype. Fuel efficient, quiet, clean with all the 2 stroke torque left intact. And the E-tec pricing and 3 year maintenance made them cheap to buy and cheap to run.

Full disclosure, I have always done my own mechanical work since I built and raced cars as a teenager. I have undergraduate degrees in computer hardware development and post graduate degrees in computer forensics and have worked for the past 20 years as an electronic evidence examiner. Newfangled technology does not phase me and I liked the futuristic design the E-tec promised. After the warranty period expired I did not use the dealer for service.

For the first 8 years the motor ran flawlessly and I was very happy with it, if not a little sad I did not get the 75 when I was going through my go faster phase of ownership 8)

This year however the beastie started to show her true colours. She became temperamental and hard to start on some occasions. She only had 134hrs on the clock and was due for her third service. New plugs, new water pump, new thermostat, gear oil change and a software update. No different still would not start on some occasions once running ran well just did not like to start sometimes with up to 16 key turns to get it going. Evdiag showed that it was having a lot of start in gear faults, finally the culprit identified so a new neutral safety switch was ordered and fitted. First run after fitting and the beastie would not start period. Back to the diag software to check for faults, no comms check the NMEA 2000 readouts on the chartplotter none. Check the fault leds on the EMM all 4 lit. Try an EMM recovery no luck still no comms. No fault code in the service manual for all 4 leds being lit. I am starting to suspect I have the dreaded fried EMM problem.

Now this is where my issue with BRP starts and the warning for other E-tec owners.

A replacement EMM will set you back about $3000 or 1/3 the price of your original purchase price. This is not really justifiable on a motor that is now 9 years old, out of warranty and could easily break the EMM again. The obvious solution with old motors is to buy secondhand parts from a wrecker right? Wrong BRP key the EMMs to the injectors you have to buy a new EMM from them and have it installed by a dealer to reprogram your edf and other codes your dealer also requires a password and login from BRP over the Internet which BRP only give to authorised dealers. This means the home mechanic or independant mechanic cannot repair the motor for a more reasonable cost. Plus all the dealers around here have gone broke and the Evinrude dealer I used to use has gone over to Yamaha and no longer deals in Evinrudes.

Having spoken to an Evinrude tech this is what are the likely causes of the EMM to fail from his experience.
  • Cooling blockage causing repeated overtemp of the EMM.

    Wing nuts on battery causing intermittant loss and voltage spikes.

    Charging battery with mains powered charger.

    Frayed wiring causing power spikes.

    Stator failure causing electrical faults.
The only thing I was guilty of from that list is charging the battery with the mains charger (all the key turns drained it).

Now I went through my owners manual and the only warning is a very small side note in the battery section about wing nuts could cause electrical faults, nothing else and no warning about charging the battery.

Now my big whinge after all the background information :x
  • The EMM is worth about $50 in electronic components the value is in the software I have already paid for that once BRP so why the big $$$.

    If the EMM is so sensitive to electrical fluctuations why is there not a cheap sacrificial circuit outside the EMM in a cheap easily replaceable module?

    Why BRP do you tie owners to a barely existent overpriced dealer network? (That is a monopoly and against Australian consumer law)
Sorry for the long post but just having dropped $9500.00 on a new Yammy it was time to let the fingers do the talkin' :P

Re: The E-tec is dead a warning to other owners.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:26 am
by yukonbob
Having over 500 hours on my 80 Yammy I don't think you'll be disappointed. My only two gripes with it (and they may have changed it already is the oil drain location and the pee hole arrangement. Oil is drain dead centre above the leg, and to clear the pee hole you have to remove the cowling. Other than that super happy and I'd gladly buy another Yammy or Suzuki nothing else.

Re: The E-tec is dead a warning to other owners.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:13 am
by BOAT
So, how does that work? How do you change the motor on the MAC? Do you tow the boat to a Yamaha Dealer and they do everything? Is that how it's done? Does purchasing a new motor include installation? And does that mean all the throttle controls on the pedestal have to be redone?

How does that all work? (I have never bought a motor before :? ) What's in store for us when it's time to change the motor? How exactly is that done?

Re: The E-tec is dead a warning to other owners.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:39 am
by ris
Honda BFP 60 $7400
Control and Throttle Box $250
Intall and hookup $500

Total $8,150

900 motor hours later Honda runs like new. Honda has 5 year unconditional warranty. Not prorated like most outboards. Bought our motor at boats.net, they sells Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda, Evinrude, Nissan, Mercury, and Tohatsu. A honda has to be installed by dealer if you want a warranty. They told me this does not need to be installed if smaller motors. In other words pull your boat to dealer, pay $8150 and a week later go home with boat, new motor all set up and bank account a bit lower.

Re: The E-tec is dead a warning to other owners.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:50 am
by BOAT
So you can buy a motor online on motor.com or boats.com or whatever? And then someone else you did not even buy the motor from will install it?

Huh, man, I have a lot to learn about power boats - I have no idea what to do about outboard motors.

Should I be looking for a etec dealer and should I be taking my etec into a dealer often? (What are they gonna do to it?) :? It's running fine, do I need to do anything?? :(

Re: The E-tec is dead a warning to other owners.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:45 pm
by kadet
Here a Yamaha must be installed by a Yamaha dealer they will not sell to just anyone :) I had the option to remove the old motor myself and try and sell it for parts but for $260 ( dealer charge to remove and dispose) it was not worth my effort.

Again I could have used my old E-tecs rigging and saved another $930 on Gauges cables etc.. But the new yammy gauges are digital and I get all new cables to replace the 9 year old ones. Motor installation labour $459 Rigging labour $338 Yamaha T60 $7,749.

Initially I was going to remove the old motor myself and save $260 and maybe recover some costs in selling some spare parts. But the minister for war and finance said what is your time worth and why bother plus where was I going to put the old motor?

So original quote of $9626 became $9886 all done and dusted 8)

And my local Yammy dealer is literally around the corner from my house less than 5min drive. They install on-site in a purpose built service centre with a lovely big driveway with a turning area bigger than the :macm: would ever need, I literally drive in unhitch and drive off. When done I drive back in hitch up and drive off.

I could have got both Mercury and Suzuki delivered and I could have installed them myself. For Mercury this cut the warranty from 5 to 2 years don't know about Suzuki but they have only one dealer in my area and they are a fair hike away. Mercury dealers are everywhere but the closest to me was still a 20min drive and their facility was in a dead end street with little to no parking. Their service centre was a shed on the real estate lot next door. Would have been a real PITA to get the :macm: in and out and if the street was full nowhere to turn :?

The sales guy at Mercury did not seem interested, flicked me his business card and said it would cost about $9500 but to go home and take photos of my :macm:s current set up email him and he would let me know.

The Yammy guy took me on a tour of the facility showed me the motor, gauges and rigging took me back to his office where I went through a computer menu selecting what I did or did not want then left with a full documented written quote. When I decided to buy I just phoned him back and said go and handed over my Credit Card details.

So it seemed a no brainer to go Yammy, only wish they came in white or black, grey is a bit blah and ruins my :macm:s colour scheme really like the look of the white Suzuki 8)
Honda BFP 60 $7400
Control and Throttle Box $250
Intall and hookup $500

Total $8,150
Yamaha total $9886 AUD about $7300 USD so I don't feel so bad now thanks ris :)

Re: The E-tec is dead a warning to other owners.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:55 pm
by kadet
BOAT wrote:So you can buy a motor online on motor.com or boats.com or whatever? And then someone else you did not even buy the motor from will install it?

Huh, man, I have a lot to learn about power boats - I have no idea what to do about outboard motors.

Should I be looking for a etec dealer and should I be taking my etec into a dealer often? (What are they gonna do to it?) :? It's running fine, do I need to do anything?? :(
Don't get me wrong BOAT they are a great motor while they run it is just BRPs freakin' after sales service and parts pricing that sucks. Also the lack of warning about the electrical sensitivity and lack of protection for the EMM.

Best practice with the E-tec would be to have a dedicated starter battery with the E-tec isolated from everything else. Disconnect the motor when using a mains powered charger. Replace the starter battery regularly never let it get old. Your motor can have 3 year mechanical services but should have more regular electrical check ups looking for chaf, earth and other problems especially as it gets older. From the E-tec forums I visited the problems seem to be between 5-10 years and I bet is all down to battery issues. Our batteries get tired so we start to use chargers on them etc.. Remember just one power spike and you could end up with a nice 60hp boat anchor.

Re: The E-tec is dead a warning to other owners.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:10 pm
by BOAT
I assume all 2 stroke motors have these silly electric "brains"? Would a 4 stroke be better?

How do they wire the gauges? Do you trust other guys inside the pedestal? I have a lot of stuff in my pedestal - does that mean the throttle control has to be re done too?? :? I can't imagine re routing all that stuff.

So these dealers know how to run the throttle cables and battery cables and all the other stuff and redo everything without screwing up all the data backbones and electric wires and other stuff?? And how can thier gauges fit in the same holes ?

Getting a new motor sounds really scary. Heck, just changing out the batteries can cause the kind of voltage spikes your talking about! So does leaving a charger on the batteries fry out the "brain" ?

Re: The E-tec is dead a warning to other owners.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:11 pm
by Highlander
BOAT
I bought my used 1yr old Merc 75HP 4 stroke from I-Boats for 1/3 thrd of it,s original new price had it shipped to me for $300. Can. & installed it my self :)
brought new boat home
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 010021.jpg

Bought the outboard had it delivered from BC to ON. picked it up at the transport location brought it home
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... il842t.jpg

Unloaded it checked it all out was just like brand new as u can see in these pic,s
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... j1u0vc.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 9wsw72.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... k0ddh1.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... dzzbvu.jpg


Installed with wedge kit
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 010070.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 010072.jpg

Easy peassy :P

J 8)

Re: The E-tec is dead a warning to other owners.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:15 pm
by kadet
yukonbob wrote:Having over 500 hours on my 80 Yammy I don't think you'll be disappointed. My only two gripes with it (and they may have changed it already is the oil drain location and the pee hole arrangement. Oil is drain dead centre above the leg, and to clear the pee hole you have to remove the cowling. Other than that super happy and I'd gladly buy another Yammy or Suzuki nothing else.
Don't know about the pee hole but the oil drain is still dead centre and needs a special pan to collect it :wink:

Re: The E-tec is dead a warning to other owners.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:17 pm
by BOAT
Isnt the motor real heavy? How do you pick it up?

Re: The E-tec is dead a warning to other owners.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:24 pm
by kadet
BOAT wrote:I assume all 2 stroke motors have these silly electric "brains"? Would a 4 stroke be better?

How do they wire the gauges? Do you trust other guys inside the pedestal? I have a lot of stuff in my pedestal - does that mean the throttle control has to be re done too?? :? I can't imagine re routing all that stuff.

So these dealers know how to run the throttle cables and battery cables and all the other stuff and redo everything without screwing up all the data backbones and electric wires and other stuff?? And how can thier gauges fit in the same holes ?

Getting a new motor sounds really scary. Heck, just changing out the batteries can cause the kind of voltage spikes your talking about! So does leaving a charger on the batteries fry out the "brain" ?
Yes all high pressure fuel injected 2 strokes have Engine Management Control to meet EPA requirements. But only BRP has the silly licenses and monopoly on EMM replacement as far as know. 4 Strokes still have ECUs for the EFI but again I could got a wrecker and just swap ECUs from another motor with no issues.

I am in the process of derigging the E-tec and putting my other electronics in a separate wiring loom in the pedestal so it is easier for the Yammy dealer to fit the new motor and so they don't break my other stuff :).

The Yammy gauges are bigger so they will cut new bigger holes.

Not as scary as not having a motor 20 miles off shore or in fast flowing channel heading for rocks :)

Re: The E-tec is dead a warning to other owners.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:25 pm
by kadet
BOAT wrote:Isnt the motor real heavy? How do you pick it up?
120kg engine crane or block and tackle.

Re: The E-tec is dead a warning to other owners.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:44 pm
by Tomfoolery
kadet wrote:
BOAT wrote:Isnt the motor real heavy? How do you pick it up?
120kg engine crane or block and tackle.
And there's almost certainly a lifting lug or two on the top of the engine, under the cowl, and maybe under the flywheel cover.

Re: The E-tec is dead a warning to other owners.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:55 pm
by sailboatmike
This is exactly the reason I didnt buy a ETEC when I repowered.

After looking long and hard I saw a heap of low hour ETECS for sale for wrecking only, most with not many hours on them.

I asked myself what in the world could go wrong with a $13,000 motor that would make it not worth repairing within 150 running hours or 5 or so years.

Really can you imagine the outcry if after a couple of hundred running hours your car motor packed up to the point that is was no longer economical to repair, that would mean a new motor every month for some drivers, yet marine companies seem to think that its acceptable.

I have know that Raymarine have refused warranty claims for tiller pilots because they had water ingress, yet they claim IP67 rating, so Im not sure how they can get water ingress unless its faulty manufacture

Now im off to jump in my 1995 Jeep with 300,000Km (187,000 miles) on the clock, that must be around 9,000 hours and she will start first time, I have not even changed the plugs in the 5 years I have owned it, just make sure there is oil and water every couple of weeks, that reminds me it must be due for a oil change in the next year or two if I get around too it :D