Dana Point

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BlueSky Sailor
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Dana Point

Post by BlueSky Sailor » Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:39 pm

Just got back from a short 5 day vacation to visit grand kids in Duarte, CA.
While there, I took the liberty of sprinting down to Dana Point Harbor in the rental car on Sunday morning. I was primarily interested in looking at boats.
I must have looked at 500 boats but not a MacGregor in the bunch. Only one I saw was a 26x on the trailer in ground storage.
Guess the area is just a bit too high brow for Mac's?
In any case the visit was interesting. Survived my first earth quake and sadly, was there to witness the breaking news about Kobi's helicopter wreck.
Being a pilot also, I always find myself dreaming about flying in whatever location I'm in at that time. The first thing I told the Mrs. as we were cruising the freeway towards Dana Point; "this is not a VFR friendly day". Two hours later, the crash. Without a doubt in my mind, pilot error for continuing into deteriorating conditions, that were sketchy from the beginning. Very sad situation for many families.
Could have flown the flight IFR and taken longer in the high traffic area, but they would have got there in one piece.
Now back to the snowy land in North Idaho and waiting for winter to break so the MacGregor 26M can hit the water.

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NiceAft
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Re: Dana Point

Post by NiceAft » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:00 pm

BlueSky,

For those of us land or water bound....VFR? IFR?

Ray

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Re: Dana Point

Post by BlueSky Sailor » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:33 pm

Sorry,

VFR Visual flight rules, meaning you're responsible for separation from both traffic and obstacle avoidance. If your in the clouds or the fog, then you can't also be avoiding what you can't see. This is where the helicopter went wrong. They asked for flight following from air traffic control but were too low for tracking. Flight following gives you traffic information but is not a guaranteed thing. Its time allowed only. You still need to rely on what you can see. So if you can't see, you shouldn't be there in the first place.

IFR Instrument flight rules. This is like an airline flight. Your cleared for takeoff on a specific heading, cleared to a specific altitude and your given successive instructions on what altitude to climb to, speed to fly when dictated by traffic concerns and navigational fix points. Like following a track of waypoints on your GPS.
The inherent safety of IFR is you're cleared through a specific location,(altitude and heading) in the sky with guaranteed obstacle avoidance (the ground and other aircraft) if you fly the profile your cleared to fly.

Was a bit disappointed I didn't run across any MacGregor sailboats but enjoyed the ocean and the many boats that I did see. Was also checking out all the names. Some are pretty clever. I've been called many things, but clever isn't one of them.

Larry

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Russ
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Re: Dana Point

Post by Russ » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:59 pm

Our son is in flight school and we are airplane geeks. So the acronyms are familiar.

We are also a Flightaware ADS-B station feed.

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Re: Dana Point

Post by BOAT » Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:11 pm

Don't get me going.

Dana point - like Oceanside harbor, is an open ocean harbor. That means there is very little room in the marina for boats to sail around. Most sailboats in Dana Point or Oceanside leave the dock or slip under motor and are out of the harbor in open ocean within 5 to 10 minutes. There is no room inside the marina to do any real sailing so you really need to go out into the ocean just to raise the sails. Inside Oceanside Harbor I have sailed 'boat' but your going to be turning around every 5 minutes because you can sail from one end of the harbor to the other in no time. Dana point is not much larger.
The other issue is Dana Point is mostly folks from Laguna and other high priced places and they don't really do "trailer boats" as they call them. ("Too much work" my OC friends say). Most boats in Oceanside are either serious ocean going vessels in slips or dock queens for weekend parties or tiny day sailors and Dana Point is not really a "trailer boat" place. There were 2 X boats at Oceanside Harbor now there is only one and zero M boats.

Newport has a few MACs but not as many as you would think being the main harbor of Costa Mesa where the factory lived. That's because Newport has a horrible launch ramp for sailboats (it's behind a bridge that's only 23 feet above the water). Same for Alamitos Bay - The bridge AFTER the ramp is only 25 feet up at low tide - we barely got the A23 under that bridge. MAC will not fit at any tide.

Los Angeles has a great breakwater that makes sailing enjoyable for Los Alamitos and Long Beach and Los Angeles Harbors - the breakwater is so big it surrounds all those harbors. Even with that you see few MAC's there because the launch ramps are behind bridges. We sail out of Long Beach and even there we have to wait for low tide to get under the Queensway Bridge. You might find a few MACs there, but still rare. I have been to Catalina many times but have never seen another MAC there - I know they go there from pictures I have seen but I myself have never seen a MAC at Catalina except 'boat'.

It's funny because the waters here are so gentle compared to San Fran and the North West Islands - yet up near Whimby and San Fran Bay you see a LOT of MACs !! Go Figure. I guess because people consider those areas "protected water" they assume is safer for the MAC than the open oceans but really, I run into WAY more weather up north in "protected waters" than I EVER run into out in the open ocean down here in So Cal and Baja.

And then there is San Diego - Wow, San Diego is different - really another world - the people in San Diego seem to HATE MAC's for some reason - it's really weird. If another sailor in San Diego see's you under power at 18 knots in the harbor he will give you a dirty look like as if your commiting a crime or as if you are some low life. San Diego is really weird. I used to shoot the Alamitos Bay harbor channel under sail alone all the time when I was a kid (tacking back and forth cuz your exiting into the wind) but now that channel is SO crowded with so much traffic you could get run over by a 100 foot yacht. That's the other things - it's getting crowded in So Cal and MAC sailors seem to stay away from the crowds.

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Re: Dana Point

Post by NiceAft » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:07 pm

Good info. BOAT.

My oldest, his wife and kids, recently moved across the country to Rolling Hill Estates, Los Angeles county.

Ray

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Re: Dana Point

Post by BOAT » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:14 pm

NiceAft wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:07 pm
Good info. BOAT.

My oldest, his wife and kids, recently moved across the country to Rolling Hill Estates, Los Angeles county.

Ray
Super high rent district

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Re: Dana Point

Post by Catigale » Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:33 am

NiceAft wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:00 pm
BlueSky,

For those of us land or water bound....VFR? IFR?

Ray
The 1956 Grand Canyon crash changed the whole game of ATC; before then it was THE Wild West

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1956_Gran ... _collision

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Re: Dana Point

Post by NiceAft » Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:08 am

Larry,

I was so involved with the acronyms, I missed this; “ Now back to the snowy land in North Idaho and waiting for winter to break so the MacGregor 26M can hit the water.”

I have a cousin in northern Idaho; I believe the city is Sand Point. When I last spoke with her (a few weeks ago), she said there was a lake nearby. What she described sounded really nice.
Ray ~~_/)~~

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Re: Dana Point

Post by NiceAft » Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:12 am

Catigale wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:33 am
NiceAft wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:00 pm
BlueSky,

For those of us land or water bound....VFR? IFR?

Ray
The 1956 Grand Canyon crash changed the whole game of ATC; before then it was THE Wild West

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1956_Gran ... _collision
I was about two months shy of turning seven. Funny how I don’t remember this :D :D. Must of had the little girl next door on my mind. :)
Ray ~~_/)~~

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Re: Dana Point

Post by BOAT » Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:41 am

Lots of drones in Dana Point - There is even a drone there that is so big you can ride on it. Because there are so many rich people there in Laguna and Dana Point and Capistrano that own factories and companies they wanted to have their own private self driving drones to fly them back and forth to Los Angeles where all their workers are. I guess they are not allowed to fly VFR so having pre-programed "sky freeways" that makes the GPS fly the drones in a restricted corridor at a preset altitude made the FAA happy and they were given permission for a functional spec to write the software. I heard that the FAA is going to test the software with real (but smaller) toy drones over a period of six months to test the safety of the program. We already have a lot of cars there in Orange County (where Dana Point is) that are driving all by themselves - Disneyland (also there) is installing the Google self driving trams to take you to the park from the car lots. I guess ATC will be automated by machines for air travel AND road travel pretty soon. Pilots will not be allowed to fly over Orange County anymore until they get the software from what I was told - General Aviation by human pilots will no longer exist there. This is the new way of thinking in California - they want machines to run everything including the government.

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Re: Dana Point

Post by Tomfoolery » Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:11 am

NiceAft wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:12 am
I was about two months shy of turning seven. Funny how I don’t remember this :D :D. Must of had the little girl next door on my mind. :)
We moved when I was 4 years old. I still remember the little girl who lived next door. Her name was Jamie. She was a biter. :|
Tom
Be seeing you . . .

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Re: Dana Point

Post by BOAT » Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:23 am

Tomfoolery wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:11 am
NiceAft wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:12 am
I was about two months shy of turning seven. Funny how I don’t remember this :D :D. Must of had the little girl next door on my mind. :)
We moved when I was 4 years old. I still remember the little girl who lived next door. Her name was Jamie. She was a biter. :|
If she was a biter maybe her dad was a dentist in Dana Point so he probably flew a Beechcraft Bonanza out of John Wayne airport and crashed it somewhere over Irvine. (Saw a lot of that back in the 60's)

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Re: Dana Point

Post by Russ » Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:45 pm

BOAT wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:41 am
Lots of drones in Dana Point - There is even a drone there that is so big you can ride on it. Because there are so many rich people there in Laguna and Dana Point and Capistrano that own factories and companies they wanted to have their own private self driving drones to fly them back and forth to Los Angeles where all their workers are. I guess they are not allowed to fly VFR so having pre-programed "sky freeways" that makes the GPS fly the drones in a restricted corridor at a preset altitude made the FAA happy and they were given permission for a functional spec to write the software. I heard that the FAA is going to test the software with real (but smaller) toy drones over a period of six months to test the safety of the program. We already have a lot of cars there in Orange County (where Dana Point is) that are driving all by themselves - Disneyland (also there) is installing the Google self driving trams to take you to the park from the car lots. I guess ATC will be automated by machines for air travel AND road travel pretty soon. Pilots will not be allowed to fly over Orange County anymore until they get the software from what I was told - General Aviation by human pilots will no longer exist there. This is the new way of thinking in California - they want machines to run everything including the government.
That is VERY interesting. Automation is changing everything. I have a friend who is a retired ATC from Atlanta. He was perfect as he had an outstanding short term memory. But routing airplanes surely can be automated with some human intervention when conditions change. Makes a lot of sense.

My B-I-L just bought a Tesla. He bought the upgrade software that allows it to detect stop signs and such. Self driving is now mainstream.

We were promised flying cars decades ago. Now we have flying drones. Wow! I guess we skipped a step. And with that comes ATC. We live in interesting times.
--Russ

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