Sail or Motor

A forum for discussing topics relating to MacGregor Powersailor Sailboats

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Would you improve the sailing abilities of your Mac at the loss of its motoring prowess?

Nah! Its good enough for me now.
14
88%
Sure! I'm a sailor first.
1
6%
Undecided! I bounce back and forth also.
1
6%
 
Total votes: 16

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Inquisitor
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Sail or Motor

Post by Inquisitor » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:11 am

I am glad I purchased my MacGregor-M back in 2007. It was not great as a sailboat, it was not great as a motor boat. But for that time period, it was the perfect boat for my family. We could drag kids around the lake on tubes and I could sail on the coast. We could sleep aboard, camping style. Win, Win, Win. Now, that the kids have moved on, I'm more inclined to have a boat better suited to sailing and don't mind giving up 10+ knot motoring. However, maybe... grand kids will sway that back again someday. The Mac will still be here. I am curious about the general feelings of our Mac community.

If you had the option to improve the sailing and cruising aspects of your Mac at the loss of its motoring ability, would you?
Last edited by Inquisitor on Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
A few too many degrees off center.

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NiceAft
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Re: Sail or Motor

Post by NiceAft » Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:15 pm

I don’t wish to be a curmudgeon, but you left off a choice; not important enough to care about it.

I purchased my 2005 :macm: at the 2004 Annapolis in water show. My boys are grown and far away, but getting out on the water is my heaven. I’ve had the chance to be at the helm of a 60’ catamaran in the Caribbean, and a 32’ (I think) Sunodesy in the Mediterranean, and I still don’t entertain the thought of which I would prefer to change, sailing ability, or powering. None of your options work for me.

The boat is definitely not perfect, and the other choices don’t apply.

Add the fourth choice. :D
Ray ~~_/)~~

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Jimmyt
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Re: Sail or Motor

Post by Jimmyt » Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:25 pm

Question is a tad abstract for me to get my head around. What sort of mod(s) are you thinking? Are you talking about purchasing a different boat? You could get a Farrier tri and sail at Mac motoring speed.

A really good set of sails would improve sailing, but wouldn't impede motoring. Going to a smaller outboard would shed weight, possibly helping sailing, but not sure how much. Shedding a couple of hundred pounds might be significant.

Improving cruising aspects (building a new galley now), is something I'm interested in. Obviously, the more weight you add, the more you adversely impact both sailing and motoring. Again, you'd probably have to go to a different boat to improve cruising AND sailing simultaneously.

Currently, I like having the capability to motor fast when required. This is primarily due to the fact that I trailer-sail; sail when I get the chance as opposed to waiting for the right wind direction; and often need to get the crew home to meet a schedule.

So, I'm going to go with a NO. I'm satisfied with the sailing characteristics of the boat (my sailing skills however may need a bit of honing), and would not want a slower motoring, better sailing, boat with more cruising amenities.

I also have grandkids that I hope will want to sail and tube. :wink:
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Re: Sail or Motor

Post by Inquisitor » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:35 pm

NiceAft, I'd be glad to add, "I don't care", but from what you said, I'm not sure I can tell the difference between "I don't care" and its "perfect for me now". It sounds like if I just changed "perfect" to "good enough for me now" it'd fit your choice.

Jimmyt, I think it needs to be abstract. If I said, "XYZ option" then it becomes about that option. I'm just curious what the general trend is.

One person might think, yeah, I'd spring for a 32' MacGregor (wasn't there kind-of one in the works at one time?) It seems like it had a drop bulb keel and no speed boat pretensions... no chopped transom, no skiing. Another person might be thinking about getting another boat brand all together. Another might be willing to do major surgery just to make into a better sailboat (not that I know what that would be). I'm not trying to load the deck one way or the other. Let the reader abstract it with their imagination.
A few too many degrees off center.

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Re: Sail or Motor

Post by NiceAft » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:54 pm

“Good enough for me” works. 8)
Ray ~~_/)~~

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Re: Sail or Motor

Post by Inquisitor » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:10 pm

Good enough... It shall be!

I think a comedian would call this a tough audience.

Disclaimer - I am not from the government. 8) I am not trying to sell anything. I am not marketing for anything. You will not be tracked. You will not be judged. :? I am retired and I just had a slow day and was curious.
A few too many degrees off center.

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Re: Sail or Motor

Post by NiceAft » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:43 pm

Disclaimer - I am not from the government. 8) I am not trying to sell anything. I am not marketing for anything. You will not be tracked. You will not be judged. :? I am retired and I just had a slow day and was curious.
To be authentic, this should be in small print.
Disclaimer - I am not from the government. 8) I am not trying to sell anything. I am not marketing for anything. You will not be tracked. You will not be judged. :? I am retired and I just had a slow day and was curious.
Ray ~~_/)~~

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Re: Sail or Motor

Post by Russ » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:03 am

There are many other variables here. At what cost? Weight, trailerability, headroom, cabin space.

It's a compromise boat for sure, but one area that it excels is that it's the "largest" cabin in a sailboat that you can trailer without a serious rig.
--Russ

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Re: Sail or Motor

Post by baldnober » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:50 am

I like to sail and tinker with the boat or just spend time on the water. But if the weather is turning bad; I want to get off of the water quick. I don't want to be in the rain, storm, cold, or heat. I'm 75 and that's just me.

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Re: Sail or Motor

Post by Be Free » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:01 am

Before I bought my :macx: I did all of my sailing on a 16' Prindle that had been seriously modified for speed. There is no question that it was fast. It had 2/3 the sail area of my Mac and 8 percent of the weight. I would go out on the local lakes and literally sail circles around the monohulls just for the fun of it. It was unquestionably fast and also unquestionably uncomfortable for more than a couple of hours sailing (I did spend a week on it once, but that's another story).

When I decided to that my knees were not going to last much longer on a beach cat, I researched everything I could find on any boat that was in my price range (approximately 5x what I ended up spending on the Mac). I say this to make clear that I was very open regarding any type of sailboat and had the budget to buy anything I could reasonably desire.

Being an analytical type, I made a spreadsheet with every feature I was looking for in a new boat (weighted by how important it was) and every boat I researched went into that spreadsheet. I was very careful to only consider features that dealt with how I would actually use the new boat. Because the ability to tow with a reasonably sized vehicle and store it in my own yard were very high priority, the cats and the "bluewater" boats quickly dropped off.

Having resigned myself to having to go over to the "dark side" (monohulls) draft, interior space, and comfort moved up on the list. In the end it boiled down to a water ballasted, swing or drop keel boat that did not require a wide load permit to tow it. It also needed to have enough interior space to satisfy my wife :) .

In the end, it came down to either an X or M. I really wanted that rotating mast (it really helped the Prindle) but in the end it came down to the fact that I liked the swing keel and the interior layout on the X better.

Sailing performance did not really enter into the equation to a great extent. I'm reminded of the factory specs on my old BMW motorcycle. Under horsepower it says: "sufficient". That's how I see the sailing characteristics of my :macx: ... sufficient.

That's my long way around to saying that the Mac is "good enough" when it comes to sailing. I suspect that it is not dissimilar to the story most others could tell.

On a karma related note, after I bought the X but before I sold the Prindle I was spending a couple of weeks at a house on a local lake. I brought both boats and made the mistake of going out and letting one of my teenagers use the Prindle. He sailed up near me and said, "Dad, you know I have to do it, right?" I hung my head and said, "yeah". The then proceeded to sail around me a couple of times before heading off to the other side of the lake. :D

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Re: Sail or Motor

Post by DaveC426913 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:11 pm

I wonder what the trade-offs (trades-off?) are though.

To err on the side of power boat might cost you speed and pointing and such when you go sailing, but what compromises would one have to make to motoring for it to be a better sailboat?

I suspect most of the powerboat concessions are for stability at-speed. If one were to try to make changes to the design to make it a better sailboat - for example, the shape of the hull - I suspect one would risk safety.

A sailboat that doesn't sail well would be less fun, but a powerboat that doesn't power well could be a recipe for disaster.

And I suspect that the industry standards for safety are much more rigid for a powerboat than for a sailboat - so in practice it might be a moot question whether one can make such changes.

All that being said, if I recall, :macm:'s are better sailors than :macx:'s, while :macx:'s are better under power.
So maybe the takeaway is: if you want a better sailboat, buy an :macm: ? 8)
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Re: Sail or Motor

Post by Tomfoolery » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:50 am

This poll is in the Powersailor forum, so the sliding scale only applies to the 19, 26X, and 26M, but if I wanted better sailing performance, I’d buy a 26S or 26D. Which I may do at some point. But for now, we have too much fun pulling wakeboards and (someday) the grandkids on tubes.

And I can still sail it enough to get my freak on with that. :wink:
Tom
Be seeing you . . .

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Re: Sail or Motor

Post by JotaErre » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:15 pm

I know the Mac is a compromise. But it was the boat that suited my needs best, and I knew what I was buying. I've been a Mac Owner for ten years and I don't regret it.

:macx:

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Re: Sail or Motor

Post by Drifter » Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:59 am

My MacX hasn't even arrived yet, but I already have an opinion... :D

the Max X or M can already sail most of its max hull speed anyway, and what little difference there is in speed compared to a "proper" 26ft sailing yacht is basically nothing to normal people (as opposed to sailors wanting to race each other and who care about 1/10th of a knot).

I very much doubt my wife, nephews or friends will be saying "Damn dude, you should have got a totally different, impractical boat, then we could be going almost 2mph faster".

Especially when they know I can raise the boards and open the throttle and go 10 mph faster anyway, even with full ballast.

None of them really understand the concept of tacking or jibing yet, and when they do, same thing...

They're not going to be saying "Dude! You should have totally got that sweet Pearson 39 that you couldn't possibly keep at home or use in the shallow waters around here, or go anywhere near the beach, or tow a ski or anything else, because then you could sail an extra 3 degrees closer to the wind, doncha know?"

No, they'll just be delighted to be on a real sailing boat and really sailing on the real sea and really fishing real fish and then wake-boarding on the way home with the engine running.

That's the plan anyway :)

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Re: Sail or Motor

Post by NiceAft » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:58 pm

The Mac is a fun boat; just go out and enjoy, and don’t worry about the little things in life; you’re saling :!:

I once had a fellow ask to crew on my :macm: . He was big, maybe 6’7” (a little over 2 meters). He actually stood on the cabin sole, and his head was above the sliding hatch. He was also heavy. He told me he would be asked to be part of the meat locker on sailboats because of his heft. He was amazed that because of our ballast system, he had no effect on counterbalancing the :macm: when it was heeling over. I think it bothered him. :D :D
Ray ~~_/)~~

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