Venture 25 main sheet, rear vs traveller, yet another thread

[Venture25_79]

Hi everyone - I have read several older threads about travellers and main sheet issues but a lot of them have broken links to the original images so I was hoping to resurrect this topic to get opinions on how to improve my setup, which is currently very similar to the factory arrangement with the rear triangle rig. I really do not like this arrangement but I'm worried about investing in a new system and introducing different issues.

My main problem with this arrangement is that I cannot get the boom to centerline in medium to light air and I think that my pointing ability is suffering from that. My secondary problem is that there is a lot of line that's kind of in the way of the cockpit when reaching. Third, I do not like the aft port corner mainsheet control location. Finally, I also think it looks bad

Here are the options I have come up with:

1. Traveller across the seats direct behind the companionway. This would I think be the best position from a sail control and performance standpoint. I actually started collecting parts in order to implement this. But I'm worried about the following downsides:
- less comfort for passengers sitting in the cockpit against the cabin
- risk of bending the boom
- worse access for me to control the main sheet with passengers who are not experienced crew.

2. Traveller across the seats immediately behind the seat hatch - I have kind of ruled this out as I think the cockpit is too small to have this barrier in it.

3. Reconfigure rear triangle to be more of a bridle traveller. This is where I'm currently leaning... the idea would be to have a block on each side with cam cleats, run to a ring in the middle where the actual mainsheet block would be. I feel like this would give great control, allowing the boom end to be lowered by tightening both sides, and also the ability to position the mainsheet block to either side or dead center. The sheet control position would be generally centered. But it would also be a bit high in the air, not sure how comfortable that would be to use. This would keep all controls toward the stern and out of the way of passengers. But it might make using the boarding ladder more awkward for swimming (although I could mount the padeyes a bit to the inside allowing boarding on the outside of the bridle traveller). Some questions about this are:
- Will the suspended mainsheet block be annoying?
- How far apart do the padeyes have to be for it to be useful?
- Will the "lines strung across cockpit" while reaching be more or less annoying than with the factory arrangement?


There is a 4th idea but it's abit more extreme, and that's to build a solid track bridge or a curved track that arches over the tiller. Built correctly I think this is probably the absolute best solution but it seems like a way bigger project and getting the structure correct seems challenging.

I'm interested in peoples' experiences with various setups. It looks like a previous owner had a track traveller across the seats by the companionway but it was then removed.

I'm OK spending a bit of $ to increase the enjoyment of the boat but don't want to regret it once I make a big change and drill holes.

Interested in pictures of peoples' setups! With all the different Mac versions out there it's hard to find good info of the old ventures specifically

Thanks!!

[Venture25_79]

Here is a picture I found of a similar setup. I see there is also a rope "rail" but I'm not sure that's necessary. I found this photo by clicking all around this site the past couple days but I can't remember where it come from precisely. It's obviously not a mac but shows the general idea.

[JohnnyP]

I'm in a similar position with my V2-24, which has a very similar (if not identical) cockpit arrangement to your V25. The boat came from the factory with the clearly inferior A-frame sheet system (oddly, I've read that this is excellent for multihulls). Somewhere down the line, a PO installed a traveler just forward of the Lazarette. I can say, with confidence, that this configuration is terrible and it would appear you came to the same conclusion! There were other options I explored, such as a double-sheet main and this little number: http://www.co26.com/Tech-Notes/a-design ... t-traveler. What I like about the latter is that 100% of the cockpit is open; however, the obvious downside is that one would have to fabricate the uprights to clear the tiller while being strong enough to manage the sheer forces from the sheeting system.

I settled on installing the traveler just aft of the companionway. I chose this for several reasons, chief among them is that I already have a traveler! Not that they are terribly expensive but an extra $200-$300 would have quite possibly drove me to explore other options. I figure the following to be true: I will mostly be sailing with friends and family, whom I can teach the finer points of sail trim to without issue; I have a mostly obstruction-free main cockpit area (the very small amount of space that's taken up by the track is negligible, considering the aforementioned options); this mounting point provides a near-optimal pull on the boom for proper shape; lastly, I like the idea of having the sheet ahead of me, rather than off to the side or behind me where I'd have to engage in some sort of yoga position to manipulate it.

While I do like the idea of the bridle system, there are several points I would consider: first, you will have to ensure that backstay does not foul the system, so it will have to be positioned slightly forward; second, you will also have to ensure the sheet does not get entangled in the tiller handle, which will require you to be constantly diligent when tacking; third, you will have to sheet off to the aft of the boom. While this is perfectly fine, I would then consider a vang to ensure you have the proper downward pull on the boom; fourth, think about a system failure and whether or not you would be able to jury rig a solution on-the-fly or at least be able to limp along; lastly, sit in your cockpit, with the tiller installed, and imagine you're on a reach and need to adjust the main. Is this a comfortable configuration for you? I think that would tell you all you need to know!

Hope this was helpful!

[Venture25_79]

These are all great points, thanks! If you have any pictures of your set up I'd love to see them sometime. The rear bridge really does seem like the best solution but the hardest to implement.

I might try the bridle set up and test it in a "locked center" position using what I have on hand (lines to the the docking cleats) just to see what it feels like. I tend to spend a lot of time steering from the back of the cockpit since the passengers like to spread out all over the place and if I sit forward of the tiller, which is of course the most natural position, I'm taking up 4 bum's worth of seats by keeping the skipper zone clear. I do think that cleating the mainsheet all the way by the transom is kind of a weird way to do it for normal "skipper+2 crew" sailing but it could be good for this "sailing with passengers" situation. I have a mediocre boom vang already (previous owner installed a dinghy vang that works kinda OK). I think the backstay should be fine as it's behind the end of the boom and all of the bridle system will stay between the eyes and the boom, kind of like the factory set up but with a smaller triangle.

Keeping the tail of the mainsheet clear of the tiller does seem like it could be annoying with the bridle.

[JohnnyP]

One more point to consider is that you will have three sheets on the transom: two for each the port and starboard bridle control lines and the third for the actual main sheet. I think that would be my biggest concern! This was one of the reasons I strayed away from the "double sheet" system as I dreaded the thought of having to manage all that rope each and every tack. Despite this, I think you're on to something and it appears to be well suited for casual cruising situations where your "crew" busy themselves with reclining above all else. Let us know how it goes and please update with pictures once it's all assembled!

[steve4]

Just last week I happened to find the one other Mac 25 owner at my marina and found they had installed a traveler right in front of the companionway on the forward end of the seats. At first thought this seems like a terrible inconvenience but, I then realized that for my typical day-sail no one really goes below while we're underway. So, I think the improvement and ease of sail trim and line handling would make this setup better since we could just move the traveler to either side when we heave-to for lunch and what not. If I get the chance to go back by soon I'll snap a picture.

[Venture25_79]

Well, I ended up trying this bridle system using existing deck padeyes at the end of last season and my review is "meh". It's a very odd place to control the main from "up in the air" and the lines are definitely annoying while reaching. So it's back to the drawing board. I'm trying to get a used pushpit this month and may try to figure something out that uses it. Otherwise I might end up back on the "track by the companionway" path.

Still interested in pictures if anyone has any interesting mainsheet setups!

Thanks

[Highlander]

Sumner traveller on his Mac



J

[Venture25_79]

These look great. My boat doesn't have a seat across the companionway so I would need to fabricate something (teak?) to support the middle