Winch Sizing
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- Just Enlisted
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Sat May 15, 2021 6:21 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Port of Pittsburgh
Winch Sizing
Morning!
I'm curious on what the original winch capacity was for the 26X. Mine is pretty bent up and so I'm replacing it. I figure the boat and accessories will weigh approx 2,700lbs and with the ballast initially draining would raise the weight to nearly 4,000lb until drained.
Is a 3,200lb capacity cable winch adequate? Obviously, the boat won't be lifted straight of the water and so I imagine dragging will be much less load than total weight but perhaps friction from the bunks and the slope of the launch will add back up?
I've not pulled my boat onto the trailer yet so I may find my own question stupid once I've done it (like, maybe it floats just about all the way into position or minimal pulling required!) But...rather than looking MORE foolish than necessary at the launch in front of folks, thought I'd see what the standard was...
Thanks!
I'm curious on what the original winch capacity was for the 26X. Mine is pretty bent up and so I'm replacing it. I figure the boat and accessories will weigh approx 2,700lbs and with the ballast initially draining would raise the weight to nearly 4,000lb until drained.
Is a 3,200lb capacity cable winch adequate? Obviously, the boat won't be lifted straight of the water and so I imagine dragging will be much less load than total weight but perhaps friction from the bunks and the slope of the launch will add back up?
I've not pulled my boat onto the trailer yet so I may find my own question stupid once I've done it (like, maybe it floats just about all the way into position or minimal pulling required!) But...rather than looking MORE foolish than necessary at the launch in front of folks, thought I'd see what the standard was...
Thanks!
- Russ
- Admiral
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- Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:01 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Bozeman, Montana "Luna Azul" 2008 M 70hp Suzi
Re: Winch Sizing
Maybe this one will work
http://shop.bwyachts.com/product-p/9002-110.htm
Remember, you CAN NOT winch the boat onto the trailer. This is probably why yours got bent in the first place.
The winch simply pulls the boat as far up as reasonably possible without straining excessively. Once off the ramp, you bring the boat all the way forward on the trailer via the "Mac Bump". Slamming on the brakes in the parking lot and allowing the boat to slide full forward. THEN you can take up the slack on the winch.
The winch on our boats is not used for much else.
http://shop.bwyachts.com/product-p/9002-110.htm
Remember, you CAN NOT winch the boat onto the trailer. This is probably why yours got bent in the first place.
The winch simply pulls the boat as far up as reasonably possible without straining excessively. Once off the ramp, you bring the boat all the way forward on the trailer via the "Mac Bump". Slamming on the brakes in the parking lot and allowing the boat to slide full forward. THEN you can take up the slack on the winch.
The winch on our boats is not used for much else.
--Russ
- dlandersson
- Admiral
- Posts: 4531
- Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:00 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Michigan City
Re: Winch Sizing
The original winch was approx. 1,200 lbs. Mine is around 3,000 because I tend to overkill.
The winch is not to pull up the Mac all the way - it's to lift it (while the ballast is emptying) onto the trailer. The Mac bump or liquid roller is used for the last bit.
The winch is not to pull up the Mac all the way - it's to lift it (while the ballast is emptying) onto the trailer. The Mac bump or liquid roller is used for the last bit.
Soundevice wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:34 am Morning!
I'm curious on what the original winch capacity was for the 26X. Mine is pretty bent up and so I'm replacing it. I figure the boat and accessories will weigh approx 2,700lbs and with the ballast initially draining would raise the weight to nearly 4,000lb until drained.
Is a 3,200lb capacity cable winch adequate? Obviously, the boat won't be lifted straight of the water and so I imagine dragging will be much less load than total weight but perhaps friction from the bunks and the slope of the launch will add back up?
I've not pulled my boat onto the trailer yet so I may find my own question stupid once I've done it (like, maybe it floats just about all the way into position or minimal pulling required!) But...rather than looking MORE foolish than necessary at the launch in front of folks, thought I'd see what the standard was...
Thanks!
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- Just Enlisted
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Sat May 15, 2021 6:21 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Port of Pittsburgh
Re: Winch Sizing
The Mac Bump, I've heard of this on this forum!
So when loading, the boat should nearly float all the way into position, I'm gathering. Which means the trailer is dipped to approx where, in your communal experience? Should I fully have the trailer wheels underwater, have my truck wheels to the waterline? After the first time I should have a handle on these basics but since I may have your ear, a little guidance with trailering the Mac is appreciated! I'm figuring as soon as the bow is up the ballast will begin draining and I can slowly pull the trailer out with the winch as the sole attachment (hence my curiosity re capacity.) Once out then the boat can be "bumped" and strapped. I will prob pick up a 3,000lb winch as I tend to overkill when unsure! Thanks for your thoughts...
So when loading, the boat should nearly float all the way into position, I'm gathering. Which means the trailer is dipped to approx where, in your communal experience? Should I fully have the trailer wheels underwater, have my truck wheels to the waterline? After the first time I should have a handle on these basics but since I may have your ear, a little guidance with trailering the Mac is appreciated! I'm figuring as soon as the bow is up the ballast will begin draining and I can slowly pull the trailer out with the winch as the sole attachment (hence my curiosity re capacity.) Once out then the boat can be "bumped" and strapped. I will prob pick up a 3,000lb winch as I tend to overkill when unsure! Thanks for your thoughts...
- Tomfoolery
- Admiral
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- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Rochester, NY '99X BF50 'Tomfoolery'
Re: Winch Sizing
Sink it to where the small vee bunk at the bow is under water. You won’t be able to get the boat up onto it unless it’s sunk, or close to it. I added a roller behind mine to help it up onto that bunk in fact, as have others here. The winch only had to pull it up a little at that point, but if the trailer is deep enough, you could theoretically float the boat all the way into the bow block.
You can also drain the ballast before loading by opening the ballast gate valve (assuming that’s the style) and vent, and piloting the boat at about 7 kts under power. The bow will rise and the ballast will drain, then while still motoring at speed, close the gate valve. It’ll sit higher in the water, especially at the bow, which makes it easier to load.
And yes, the instant the bow is raised at all, ballast will start to drain, if the gate valve is open.
Oh, and you need the Mac Bump® because of the geometry of the winch line and the bunks. As the trailer rises under the boat, the bow bumper rotates away from the boat, creating some distance. No way around that without modifying the winch tower. Not worth the trouble to me.
Here's a video of my loading my X onto its OEM steel trailer. I bounced off the starboard goalpost and had to back out and try again, got the centerboard hooked on the rear cross member (you can see me pull it up), then hit it again. Super shallow ramp in Cape Cod, so it was backed as far as I could go without putting the Jeep's wheels in the water. You can see that the winch hardly pulls at all, though I have the OB driving forward at idle, which I always do, just to hold it there. Usually, with a steeper ramp, the boat easily floats up to the bow block rather than stopping at the forward vee bunk and roller. I just didn't want to gun it, as that's bad form and scours the bottom of the ramp, and can have unexpected results if it jumps the vee bunk too fast.
Still have the image, and the CAD drawing behind it. It's crude, but accurate as far as how the winch/boat/bunk geometry works to create distance between the bow block and the hull as the trailer rotates up as the whole mess is pulled up the ramp.
You can also drain the ballast before loading by opening the ballast gate valve (assuming that’s the style) and vent, and piloting the boat at about 7 kts under power. The bow will rise and the ballast will drain, then while still motoring at speed, close the gate valve. It’ll sit higher in the water, especially at the bow, which makes it easier to load.
And yes, the instant the bow is raised at all, ballast will start to drain, if the gate valve is open.
Oh, and you need the Mac Bump® because of the geometry of the winch line and the bunks. As the trailer rises under the boat, the bow bumper rotates away from the boat, creating some distance. No way around that without modifying the winch tower. Not worth the trouble to me.
Here's a video of my loading my X onto its OEM steel trailer. I bounced off the starboard goalpost and had to back out and try again, got the centerboard hooked on the rear cross member (you can see me pull it up), then hit it again. Super shallow ramp in Cape Cod, so it was backed as far as I could go without putting the Jeep's wheels in the water. You can see that the winch hardly pulls at all, though I have the OB driving forward at idle, which I always do, just to hold it there. Usually, with a steeper ramp, the boat easily floats up to the bow block rather than stopping at the forward vee bunk and roller. I just didn't want to gun it, as that's bad form and scours the bottom of the ramp, and can have unexpected results if it jumps the vee bunk too fast.
Still have the image, and the CAD drawing behind it. It's crude, but accurate as far as how the winch/boat/bunk geometry works to create distance between the bow block and the hull as the trailer rotates up as the whole mess is pulled up the ramp.
Last edited by Tomfoolery on Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
Tom
Be seeing you . . .
Be seeing you . . .
- Russ
- Admiral
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- Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:01 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Bozeman, Montana "Luna Azul" 2008 M 70hp Suzi
Re: Winch Sizing
Tom had a great illustration that explains why it is impossible to pull the boat fully to the chock on the ramp. The image hosting company is gone and therefore so is that image. Maybe he saved a copy and can post it again (and we can make it a sticky. It needs to be a sticky).
Once the trailer is out of the water, new Mac owners are surprised to see several inches of gap between the chock and the bow.
Yes, the simple task of slamming on the brakes will allow the boat to slide fully forward (the Mac Bump). Then the slack in the winch can be taken up.
Here is an illustration I found that explains why you will always have a gap in the bow chock.
Once the trailer is out of the water, new Mac owners are surprised to see several inches of gap between the chock and the bow.
Yes, the simple task of slamming on the brakes will allow the boat to slide fully forward (the Mac Bump). Then the slack in the winch can be taken up.
Here is an illustration I found that explains why you will always have a gap in the bow chock.
--Russ
- dlandersson
- Admiral
- Posts: 4531
- Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:00 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Michigan City
Re: Winch Sizing
Ditto on the roller
Tomfoolery wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:55 am I added a roller behind mine to help it up onto that bunk in fact, as have others here.
- Be Free
- Admiral
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- Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:08 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Steinhatchee, FL
Re: Winch Sizing
Another important part of the "Mac Bump" is that you do not tighten the winch up before you do it. If the winch line is tight it will hold the bow down against the roller/bunk and work against you. Take up the slack but don't tighten it down.
Bill
2001 26X Simple Interest
Honda BF40D
"If I were in a hurry I would not have bought a sailboat." Me
2001 26X Simple Interest
Honda BF40D
"If I were in a hurry I would not have bought a sailboat." Me
- pitchpolehobie
- First Officer
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- Location: USA, OH
Re: Winch Sizing
Great advice I noticed that every time Ive taken my boat out. Will try this in a few weeks! thanks!!!
2002 MacGregor 26X: Remedium
Tohatsu 25HP
Cruising Area: Inland Ohio, Lake Erie
Tohatsu 25HP
Cruising Area: Inland Ohio, Lake Erie
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- Just Enlisted
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- Joined: Sat May 15, 2021 6:21 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Port of Pittsburgh
Re: Winch Sizing
Great info, thanks!
I'll be sure to have my wife film the experience to catch any potential mishaps (for the entertainment of all, ha!) I will have a small crew of folks helping the first time so we'll see how it goes. This whole year has been a great learning curve for me so will hopefully chalk up another successful experience.
Thanks again, this forum is a great resource, especially for someone not surrounded by a sailing 'scene' to be able to bounce questions off.
I'll be sure to have my wife film the experience to catch any potential mishaps (for the entertainment of all, ha!) I will have a small crew of folks helping the first time so we'll see how it goes. This whole year has been a great learning curve for me so will hopefully chalk up another successful experience.
Thanks again, this forum is a great resource, especially for someone not surrounded by a sailing 'scene' to be able to bounce questions off.
- Be Free
- Admiral
- Posts: 1340
- Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:08 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Steinhatchee, FL
Re: Winch Sizing
One other thing. You really should not do the "bump" with the mast up.
Bill
2001 26X Simple Interest
Honda BF40D
"If I were in a hurry I would not have bought a sailboat." Me
2001 26X Simple Interest
Honda BF40D
"If I were in a hurry I would not have bought a sailboat." Me
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- Admiral
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Re: Winch Sizing
Just an aside…..
One can just forget about doing a Mac Bump if you have ablative anti fouling paint! It just won’t work…been there..Done that
What we have found is with our Sea Lion trailer using long bunks and a bottom bow roller and a roller on the post winch, Is statically to adjust that bottom roller upward so that the winch roller is aligned with our Mac26X chine strakes.
When we are hauling out, we hand load (not powering on) then clip on the winch and hand crank so that the chine strakes with the center of winch roller. Then we continue hauling out and our Mac26X settles nicely on the long bunks. (We also have four vertical guide posts set tight to contact the rub rail to help keep our Mac26X in place laterally) This places the bow keel onto the bottom roller at just the right height eliminating the need for the Mac Bump.
Hope this helps some in dealing with getting their Mac on their trailer safely and securely.
Best Regards
Over Easy
One can just forget about doing a Mac Bump if you have ablative anti fouling paint! It just won’t work…been there..Done that
What we have found is with our Sea Lion trailer using long bunks and a bottom bow roller and a roller on the post winch, Is statically to adjust that bottom roller upward so that the winch roller is aligned with our Mac26X chine strakes.
When we are hauling out, we hand load (not powering on) then clip on the winch and hand crank so that the chine strakes with the center of winch roller. Then we continue hauling out and our Mac26X settles nicely on the long bunks. (We also have four vertical guide posts set tight to contact the rub rail to help keep our Mac26X in place laterally) This places the bow keel onto the bottom roller at just the right height eliminating the need for the Mac Bump.
Hope this helps some in dealing with getting their Mac on their trailer safely and securely.
Best Regards
Over Easy