Harness Attache Point?

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Prospect
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Harness Attache Point?

Post by Prospect »

I recently bought a mustang PFD with a loop for the harness. I'm thinking of buying a harness but was wondering where the best attach point is on the 26m. Also, what length is best? I was told that if you fall in the water with the harness attached any speed over 1KT and you won't be able to pull yourself in because of the drag caused by the water. Any truth to this?
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NiceAft
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Re: Harness Attache Point?

Post by NiceAft »

(A) As far as I know, there are only two places to attach a tether on an M; the lifeline, or a line you attach from the bow to the stern.

If you attach to the lifeline, you must disconnect at every stanchion. Risky.

If you run a line the length of the boat, you will have a free run stem to stern. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, so this line should be really secure.

(B) If you should fall overboard, it is reasonable to assume a long tether could make it difficult to get back on the boat, but think of this, no matter the length of the tether, try to imagine climbing up either the port or starboard side of the boat while moving. I think this is highly improbable. How many of us really have that kind of upper body strength? You would have to make your way to the stern, and hope you have a boarding ladder there. If you are not sailing, but instead are using your outboard, going to a boarding ladder is dangerous.

On the other hand, if you don’t have a tether attached, you are left behind.

Take all precautions, but stay onboard. :D
Ray ~~_/)~~
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LakeMac26C
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Re: Harness Attache Point?

Post by LakeMac26C »

Ive only used a harness on the catamarans Ive sailed. You wore a harness around your arms, chest, and saddle and the quick connect attached to wire rope going up the the mast, near the shrouds. You could more or less easily extend the length, too. If you fell into the water at speed, you'd swing around kinda violently and hope you lost enough speed to climb back on the "gunwale" that's 6" above the water.

On the Mac? Not so sure with the field goal sized freeboard. You'd have to make your way to the rear and climb via the ladder, platform, or maybe outboard? A good idea might be to attach some hand holds to your "lifeline" so you could pull yourself up. If I sail solo, sometimes I will trail a dock line with bowline "handholds" just in case I go over.

For fun, I've jumped off a friend's sailboat going 6kts+ with only a rope to hold on to. I can swim/pull back to the boat, and with low freeboard, can pull myself back into the boat as we head to irons. All are athletic operations assuming you are not injured.
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NiceAft
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Re: Harness Attache Point?

Post by NiceAft »

Macs X & M have extremely high freeboard’s. From the water to the lifeline is measured in feet, port and starboard. The lowest point is aft, and that is still at least a foot. Many don’t like leaning over to open or close the ballast valve. Think of trying to climb up, over, and into the cockpit, even with the incentive to not drown :o :D

Look at the difference between my M, my Phantom, an a catamaran
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Ray ~~_/)~~
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WinSome
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Re: Harness Attache Point?

Post by WinSome »

I feel each response has important info in it. My theory using a tether is to NOT go overboard. You’ll in big trouble as others describe. My Salus cruiser pfd has a built-in ring and harness type strap to attach to tether line.
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When needing to go forward, I plan to stay aboard by using a short tether line attached around boom( if not sailing) or to a line from bow to stern as suggested. When in use it feels so good knowing I’m attached.
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NiceAft
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Re: Harness Attache Point?

Post by NiceAft »

On a different tack.

I once had someone ask if he could come along on a sail. While on the water he commented that he could probably swim as fast as the boat. I told him that was a bad idea. He suddenly stood, removed his life vest, and jumped into the lake. He took two strokes and yelled for help. I was tempted to leave him there.

I tossed him a horseshoe life preserver, dropped the main, started the Honda and turned around to retrieve him. I immediately went back to dock and had him get off.
Ray ~~_/)~~
OverEasy
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Re: Harness Attache Point?

Post by OverEasy »

Hi LakeMac26C!

That explains the Fore-to-Aft Life Line and ‘Monkey Fist’ knotted tether line I observed in some long distance sailing kit when I was a younger version of myself …..

The Fore-to-Aft lifeline ran taught along centerline on the deck to pedestal on some…on others it stopped at the fwd edge of the cockpit.

The tether was equipped with locking carabiners and the ‘Monkey Fist’ knots were spaced about 18 inches apart.
The tether length was about 6 to 8 feet in one instance (this was for a broad beam 35 footer which was about a little more than half the beam width) so I’d suspect that in that instance the owner’s intent was to restrict the amount of “overboard” distance he’d travel.

At the time I was too naive to really recognize or ask about what it was or how it was used.
Thank you for pointing this out and the practicality of what he had made.

Best Regards
Over Easy 😎😎🐩🐈
Prospect
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Re: Harness Attache Point?

Post by Prospect »

NiceAft wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:31 am
If you run a line the length of the boat, you will have a free run stem to stern. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, so this line should be really secure.
I think this is the way to go. What is the best spot to attach a line on the bow and stern? I'm on a mooring ball so I use the bow cleats all the time so I rather attach somewhere else.
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Be Free
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Re: Harness Attache Point?

Post by Be Free »

Fore and aft is the safest way to go. Your tether should be long enough to move around freely but short enough that you can't go over the lifelines. I'm aware of at least one person who drowned after going over the lifeline and being dragged alongside the boat.
Bill
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NiceAft
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Re: Harness Attache Point?

Post by NiceAft »

Prospect wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 6:06 am
NiceAft wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:31 am
If you run a line the length of the boat, you will have a free run stem to stern. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, so this line should be really secure.
I think this is the way to go. What is the best spot to attach a line on the bow and stern? I'm on a mooring ball so I use the bow cleats all the time so I rather attach somewhere else.
I would examine using one of the most forward stanchions. Tying to the mast could work, but you would need an exceptionally long tether to reach the bow. personally, I don't want a tether that long, then again, when it comes to tether lengths, I don't know what the Goldilocks length is. I do not recall any posts from anyone who actually fell overboard, and reported their findings on a tether length :wink:
Ray ~~_/)~~
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Russ
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Re: Harness Attache Point?

Post by Russ »

I never sail solo. But I imagine this is an important topic for those that do. Good points being made here.
--Russ
OverEasy
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Re: Harness Attache Point?

Post by OverEasy »

Hi NiceAft!

Love that picture!!!
Image

Do you recall the name/location where you were?
That hotel in the background looks like the same place that was used to film my favorite Christopher Reeve movie …(who doesn’t like a love story across time?) 8) 8)

Best Regards,
Over Easy 😎😎🐩🐈
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NiceAft
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Re: Harness Attache Point?

Post by NiceAft »

OverEasy wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 10:20 am Hi NiceAft!

Love that picture!!!
Image

Do you recall the name/location where you were?
That hotel in the background looks like the same place that was used to film my favorite Christopher Reeve movie …(who doesn’t like a love story across time?

Best Regards,
Over Easy 😎😎🐩🐈
The photo was taken on Lake George in the Adirondack’s of New York State.

The hotel is the Sagamore; located at Bolton Landing, New York.

For over forty years we vacationed for two weeks at the Bonnie View Resort in Bolton Landing. One day the owner of the property took the photo you liked, and used it on the resort web page. This in itself was kind of funny, because when he first saw Nice Aft, he pulled me aside. He said “Ray, this is a family resort, and I’m not certain that name is appropriate.” I told him that I don’t know what you’re talking about. That boat has a 50HP outboard on the back. Most sailboats have maybe 7HP. It’s really nice. He said Oh,OK. Later he took the photo. :D :D :D

P.S. In the background is Tongue Mountain. If you look at my avatar, you will see the watercolor I painted of Nice Aft sailing by it.

P.P.S. Lake George is called the Queen of America’s Lakes.
32 miles long, 3 miles wide, up to 290 feet deep. It is a glacier created lake,and is the cleanest lake you will find. It’s water is the area drinking water. The authorities make sure it is not dirtied.

Watercolor.
Image

Original photo I took.
Image
Ray ~~_/)~~
OverEasy
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Re: Harness Attache Point?

Post by OverEasy »

Thanks! 8) 8)
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Ixneigh
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Re: Harness Attache Point?

Post by Ixneigh »

The fore and aft line business is called a jackline. On other boats I used to run it from the stern cleat forward around the mast and back to the other stern cleat.I Use a heavy line, it’s the strongest way possible given the stern cleats are strong enough to stop the boat. The conditions for use vary depending on the person. In nice weather not too far from shore I don’t wear a harness or life jacket. I tow a dinghy though. The body of an adult, dragging through the water will stop a Mac cold. Unlike my 33 foot keelboat which would tow a 12 foot dinghy full of water like it wasn’t even there. I used a harness more frequently on her. In terms of going over the side, the quick answer is to just not do it. It’s like that “floor is lava” game. You’re dead. A more nuanced answer really depends on the situation. Getting back on the Mac in any sort of wave action is going to be near impossible without assistance. The boarding ladder and outboard will be trying to kill you. The sides are too high. The bow is plunging into the water. I might be able to climb into the dinghy and then onto the boat. Maybe. Now if you have a harness on, you either have a long tether which lets you reach the water but keeps you attached to the boat, in which case you still can’t climb up and you may have to unclip to reach a better spot to try to reboard, like…uhhhh I can’t think of any right now, OR you have a tether so short you cannot go overboard, but that severely hinders movement. Anything in between leaves you probably dead or badly injured.
I do have several harnesses on board my M and I will use them in really dicey conditions during which I’m probably motoring in horrible weather, or sailing with no headsail when the only other thing possible is to strike the main completely and either lie a hull, or run off. During those times I would have basically no tether so I’d stay in the cockpit in the event of a knockdown or something.
I also used the same setup far offshore but in mild conditions, where I would unclip to make sail changes but would stop the boat while doing so. It’s mostly for psychological comfort.
My balance is getting lousier with age. Someday it may be prudent to get a potter 19 or an old venture 22 and just stay in water shallow enough to stand up in 8)

Ix
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