Sloppy Steering (video)

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Russ
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Re: Sloppy Steering (video)

Post by Russ »

Let us know how the install went.

I'm thinking I need to order a new cable as I have the same play.
Will check the other connections first, but I bet it's the cable.
--Russ
OverEasy
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Re: Sloppy Steering (video)

Post by OverEasy »

Hi All

Was playing with our steering on our Mac26X.
It has the old fashioned rotary head and Teleflex pushme-pullyyou cable arrangement to the rudder & engine linkage.
Each hole to pin connection has a bit of tolerance and even that small amount adds up to several degrees of wheel slop.
Add in the normal steering head gear backlash only adds to the slop degrees.
I guess I could possibly cut the slop in half with tight fit bushing/pin interface but that is only half the slop.
The steering head was replaced by our PO so the unit isn’t really very old.

Just wondering if this is the same experience of other Mac26X owners?

Best Regards
Over Easy 😎😎🐩🐈
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Tsatzsue
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Re: Sloppy Steering (video)

Post by Tsatzsue »

My steering gets real tight from time to time. Even with the rudders up and under power. It is definitely the cable. I do not want the catastrophic steering failure I have read about at the worst time. I'm used to tiller steering on my v25. I've heard some cracking but it had no linkage or cables. It was direct to my arm. Hahha. I snapped a rudder with big following seas last year on my M. I was motoring too, probably too fast. The slop and wallowing with just the motor and rudders up was unbearable. I'm hoping the new R/P and cable will at least get rid of the wallowing. I went with the extreme cable. I Atlantic is unforgiving and I like to push these boats. The V25 can tell some stories. It was sad to see her go. She was like a Corvette. Handled better the harder you pushed her. Even in heavy Buzzards Bay Chop. Very predictable. 2nd year with the M now. Lots more room but the handling is a lot harder to figure out. I took Friday off to do the steering. I will post my progress. Pics too....
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Russ
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Re: Sloppy Steering (video)

Post by Russ »

Tsatzsue wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 2:10 pm I will post my progress. Pics too....
Thanks!

I'm going to take this on soon myself.
--Russ
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Re: Sloppy Steering (video)

Post by 1st Sail »

I went down that rabbit hole a few years back. I bought a Uflex Rotex unit thinking that would be a no brainer as the rack and pinion play was excessive. Pulled out the R&P only to find the Uflex does not have the proper clearance at the bottom of the gear head for the cable to exit /turn and fed thru the binnacle tube of my '06M. Needless to say I still steering with the OEM R&P. FYI I believe the Uflex Rotex fits the X helm box and mayby later model M's. It is a zero feedback tri-gear rotary head which would be great in that it will hold a heading if you are single handing and raising the main/trimming sails with both hands. In any case I either replace with one of the BWY R&P or build a mod or build a new helm box. IiRC there is an old post here where someone modded the OEM helm box so the wheel angle/rotary head aligns with the binnacle tube so you can feed the cable thru without a sharp bend.
:macm:
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Tsatzsue
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Re: Sloppy Steering (video)

Post by Tsatzsue »

I replace the system yest with new from BWY. I went with the extreme cable. 2 hrs start to finish. It went well. Had to unbolt the top box of the peddestal and tip it to one side. I also added a nut to the bolt on the starboard tiller arm where the steering connects. Pinching the arm so the bot wouldn't wobble. Eliminated some slop. :macm: :macm:
Prospect
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Re: Sloppy Steering (video)

Post by Prospect »

Tsatzsue wrote: Sat Apr 22, 2023 4:27 am I replace the system yest with new from BWY. I went with the extreme cable. 2 hrs start to finish. It went well. Had to unbolt the top box of the peddestal and tip it to one side. I also added a nut to the bolt on the starboard tiller arm where the steering connects. Pinching the arm so the bot wouldn't wobble. Eliminated some slop. :macm: :macm:
That's great to hear that it solved the problem. I too went with the extreme cable and I'm planning to tackle the job early this week.
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Re: Sloppy Steering (video)

Post by Prospect »

I was able to finish the steering cable swap today. Yes, the pedestal has to be unbolted and moved to the side a bit to lift the old cable out.
Image

Once it's fed below the panel has to be removed to properly feed the cable.

Image

I attached the cable to the steering arm and this is the way it was before. It doesn't look correct. I think a shorter bolt should be used. Again, this is the way it was before disassembly.

Image

I then tackled the rudders and used some old cd's as shims. Not a good idea as they all cracked as soon as I tightened the bolts.

Image



Image

I went with plan B and used a vice to squeeze the rudder mounts into shape (they were splayed out) and put the rudders in without cd's.
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Russ
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Re: Sloppy Steering (video)

Post by Russ »

I'm going to do this upgrade soon.

I wonder if the Toothbrush pedestal needs to be moved.
--Russ
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Re: Sloppy Steering (video)

Post by Drifter »

Just wondering if this is the same experience of other Mac26X owners?
The steering on my 26X is ab absolute joke.

Not possible to keep the thing in a straight line, but reading through all this I suspect it's just the dodgy, early design, with slop at multiple places.

Mmm... thanks for reminding me of what is the 2nd biggest problem on my boat! :cry:

I am very interested in this idea of gluing on skegs? These are fins, to help keep it going straight, right?
OverEasy
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Re: Sloppy Steering (video)

Post by OverEasy »

Hi Drifter!

Before you add any skegs might it be suggested you try an alternate approach of sort?
Are you experiencing your sloppy steering issue when under sail or when motoring?

Our very nice P.O. replaced the cable steering assembly yet we noticed the handling issue too when motoring.
So it wasn’t the steering gears being worn in the Teleflex head.
There are several linkage pivot points in the rest of the system that exist but I don’t see that tightening them up with fitted bushed pins is gonna do all that much for our situation.

Our biggest annoyance was in the under 6 knot (7 mph) handling where we spend a good portion of our time motor cruising.
We also looked into adding a Skeg but in the process we discovered that for all intents and purposes our Mac26X already has a Skeg of sorts built in!😊😉 Our swing keel! We measured the swing keel retrieval line travel, mark the full up and full down positions, marked the line and divided the length into increments. We then experimented with various partial deployment depths which placed the swing keel at various angles which gives various lengths of “Skeg” along our hull. For most of the time we find a 50% deployed position gives us much better handling and tracking for the 6 knot (7 mph) and under cruising speed we like. At the 50% line deployment we have a fairly aggressive Skeg function as it is down about 18+ inches below the hull bottom at a long diagonal angle. For higher speeds we have experimented with shallower angles (less line deployment) with good results but have also found our boat tracks fairly well without the “Skeg” deployed above 6 knots (7mph). As such we find that this approach has alleviated our concerns and the consideration of having to add a permanent Skeg to our Mac26X. While this option approach isn’t applicable to a Mac26M as it has a dagger board keel it is something that can be done with a Mac26X.

For what it’s worth it might be something to play with🤔 before adding something that permanently protrudes from the bottom of your hull.

Best Regards,
Over Easy 😎😎🐩🐈
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Russ
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Re: Sloppy Steering (video)

Post by Russ »

Drifter wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 7:23 am
The steering on my 26X is ab absolute joke.

Not possible to keep the thing in a straight line, but reading through all this I suspect it's just the dodgy, early design, with slop at multiple places.

Mmm... thanks for reminding me of what is the 2nd biggest problem on my boat! :cry:

I am very interested in this idea of gluing on skegs? These are fins, to help keep it going straight, right?
Hey Drifter, I was just thinking we haven't heard from you in a while.
How's the boating?

I remember that steering video you posted. Looked really bad. Maybe a new steering cable is in your future. Did you do any of the checks recommended above?
--Russ
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Re: Sloppy Steering (video)

Post by March »

I have redone the steering of a 1999 X (in small increments) First, changed the cable. the one I go turned out to be a foot or even two longer than the original. I sags over the rear berth, but I could live with that. The steering got tighter, but it still got some slop; the auto=pilot was constantly working hard to keep tracking, to the point that the motor burned out, after a whole night of motoring against the waves in the Bahamas (well, the plastic cap got brittle and shattered, even though the motor was still working)

Last year, we took apart the whole steering system. Added to the pins on the steering trapeze in the back some plumber beads (like pellets with a groove in the middle) that got rid of the slop. Straightened the aluminum rudder brackets which were a bit out of shape (not an easy task, but we managed) Then made sure the mounting parts the brackets went on were straight,too--didn't have o remove them. Added the CDs. Made sure he two rudders were in parallel and aligned neatly and straightforward, by adjusting the trapeze. There was one large copper nut (they call it a Hollandaise in Europe) where the arm of the steering goes into the lining to be attached to the cable, that we couldn't figure out. After we made a special tool to move it, it turns out it doesn't seem to do anything -- so I am still baffled. I left it where it was

Anyways: now the steering is tight. The wheel moves smoothly and the only slop is of about one or two degrees at the wheel. It catches instantly, turns both starboard and port all the way to the end, without notching the fiberglass wall as it used to.

Most importantly, the autopilot is happy. It still engages and proceeds to "hunt the heading" but nowhere as badly as i used to.The motor barely gets warm to the touch after hours of working.

If the autopilot is happy, I guess I can live with that, too
Drifter
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Re: Sloppy Steering (video)

Post by Drifter »

Did you do any of the checks recommended above?"

Not yet... I find my enthusiasm for the old b comes and goes... :x
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Re: Sloppy Steering (video)

Post by Highlander »

Russ ,
get the high performance steering cable from BWY way better quality as it,s designed for high performance engines with high torque pressure on the steering system , I posted my mod on here about how I went about it & the issue,s I had because I have so much wiring running thru the floor hole for the steering cable , replaced & zero play afterwards

J 8)
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