spinnaker halyard

[macsailor]

I have a roller furler.I use my jib halyard to hoist my sock to cover the genoa as I dont have a uv strip on it, so therefore dont want to run it aft to the cockpit. I now have a spinnaker and I would like to run a seperate halyard aft through a clutch. I was also thinking of installinn another block near the top of the mast to run the spinnaker up to instead of using the old jib block on the mast . I thought it might get the spinnaker and halyard a bit further away from the furler. I am abit concerned though with puting more stress on the top of the mast when the spinnaker is up. Any thuoghts?? thanks........

[Chip Hindes]

As one for whom the spinnaker has bubbled to the top of the list...

I'm pretty sure on most boats with RF, the standard jib halyard can't be used to hoist the spinnaker without fouling the RF. Mine fouled the RF once when I simply left it a little loose when cleating it after dropping the sock, so Im quite sure it would do so were I using it for a spinnaker halyard. Others who actually have a spinnaker could probably answer that better.

I read or heard that Mac specifically recommend not to do a masthead spinnaker rig because the lack of support against side loads could result in a broken mast. The backstay will hold fine against the forward loads, so as long as you could guarantee that side loads would never happen...

Billy says words to the effect he only uses his masthead spinnaker when side loads are unlikely. Of course I know Billy is so careful a sailor that he's never even experienced an unintentional jibe...

It also seems to me that it ought to be included in the book definition of sailing that the "never happen" occurs regularly, while the unlikely is actually quite commonplace.

If I were you I'd limit my mounting location to no more than a few inches above the forestay hounds.

There's an article in September's Sail Mag which discusses the cruising spinnaker, and the demo boat in all the pictures is a Tartan 33 with a fractional rig quite similar to that on the Mac. On looking at that one, I'm wondering if there's any location for the spin halyard block which won't tend to foul the RF.

[normo]

My short answer is:
1. Buy a new hound and mount it 6-12 inches above the forestay bracket. This wil minimize the possibility of the spinnaker halyard tangling with the RF.
2. Forget the mast head location as it presents an unnecessary structural risk.

For the rest of the story read on.

Don't know how how your proposed setup will work with RF but I do know that running a spinnaker halyard anywhere near the jib halyard or forestay can be hazardous.

I know of someone that temporarily removed the RF and added hanks to the jib while HE played with the rig trying to reduce round up. During this change HE acquired a used spinnaker that HE wanted to try out so HE installed an additional block at the forestay bracket to accommodate the spinnaker halyard.

HE reports that this works fine as long as you are VERY careful and don't EVER allow the spinnaker halyard to wind around the forestay or jib halyard. If you are racing and doing multiple spinnaker hoists and takedowns it is pretty easy to violate this rule. When this happens things can get ugly fast.

To illustrate, HE offered the following hypothetical case: You are approaching the leeward mark, ready to drop the chute and the damned thing won't come down. Next, while you are heads down feverishly trying to free the spinnaker, the inexperienced crew on the wheel runs your beloved Mac aground just a few feet from shore. When you try to raise the centerboard it won't budge so you frantically start the engine. This frees the board so you pull it up but then the rudders kick up (or break off if you don't use a bungee) and the prop starts carving large chunks out of the trailing edge of the rudder. You have to shut down the engine. Now one rudder is wedged in the prop and the other is wedged in the boarding ladder. At this point you will be totally pi$$ but there is no one to blame but yourself. The only good news is that no one was injured and when you jump in the water without removing your wallet, it doesn't get wet because of the shallow draft of the Mac.

As a result of this hypothetical possibility I have changed the priority of relocating the spinnaker halyard block 6-12 inches above the jib halyard bracket from a 10 to number 1. Consider adding a new hound for the spinnaker block above the forestay bracket and forget the mast head setup.

For my sailing area a 150 genoa is normally too much sail so I will stay with the standard jib and hope to add a furling lightweight headsail mounted on a short sprit for off the wind sailing in moderate winds. This is still a couple of months away from completion.

[Catigale]

Mac Sailor

Maybe the solution is use the jib halyard to fly the spinnaker and a topping lift for the sock pull up?

[Chip Hindes]

You can't use the jib halyard to fly the spin because it will foul the RF. As the above hypothetical story notes, once you've fouled the RF with the jib- halyard-used-as-spin halyard, you can neither operate the RF nor can you drop the spin. The story points out quite well the hypothetical problems and subsequent hypothetical damage which could occur.

I use my topping lift to hold up and adjust the boom, whether with the sails up or furled, so using that for the sock it out. I originally used the "spare" jib halyard for the sock. This worked fine while the boat was slipped. It doesn't work so well now that I'm back to trailering and I need the jib halyard to raise and lower the mast frequently. So now I've installed a dedicated sock halyard. The block for this is below the forestay right next to the jib halyard block so it too won't foul the RF.[Catigale: On reread, by "sock" did you mean the spin "snuffer?" If so, I guess you could use it to pull up the snuffer, or "unsnuff". You'd need another line to pull it down or snuff. I could use my dedicated sock halyard the same way]

Hypothetically, any halyard or block which could conceivably come into contact with the top fitting on RF will (!!!) foul the RF and prevent it from rotating, but only when the hypothetical wind has suddenly increased to 25 knots and you must shorten sail to keep from breaking something or hurting somebody. You could then try furling the 150 genny in 25 knot winds and six foot rollers by standing on the fordeck and wrapping the flailing sail and sheets around the jammed RF by hand, while not falling into the hypothetical lake. Believe me, something you would prefer to do only hypothetically.

Normo, your hypothertical story is so well told, it's almost as if it actually happened.

[macsailor]

the first time we hoisted the spinnaker, it did get tangleg in the genoa. Luckily we had winds of less thean 5 knots, so no real harm. But we did have a chore getting everything squared away. including taking the sheets off the spinnaker and with a loty of messing around we did manage to get everything back to normal, with no damage to the sails.just a bit to our pride as there were a few more boats on t he water. So I thought a dadicated halyard was the way to go. My boat is slipped for the summer, so I dont need the jib halyard for anything more than the sock during the summer. I take the sail off he furler when I bring her home in the fall, so I have it back to use to drop the mast .But once again, the people to ask are the ones on here. This board has been a great asset to all of us. My thanks to Heath and all the members of the board.Jim

[Catigale]

Ive flown the spin off the job halyard, but never with the genoa out - I guess I choose either Genny or Spin but not both (not counting the one time I think I tried both for show...)

I didnt have a problem with it hanging up....maybe I was just lucky.

It was light air and strictly for running....so retrieving was simple - I just blew it off the bow and then pulled in the sheet while Barbara dropped the halyard - didnt get it wet. I had the tack on the furler with a Poor Mans Tacker - aka Sailtie.

YMMV

[Jack O'Brien]

Got a furler. Both jib and genoa have UV strips and the foresail sock is so loose it flaps in the wind so don't use it. I drilled the mast exactly 12 inches above the jib hound. Had a spare 3" bail so used that, instead of another hound, and moved the jib block to the bail. I use the "jib" halyard for the spinnaker inside its snuffer. My ATN snuffer has an internal halyard for raising the snuffer to release the spinnaker.

Haven't tried using headsail and spinnaker at the same time. Have had no problem tacking the spinnaker in front of the furled headsail nor with anything tangling. Don't recall using a headsail while the snuffed spinnaker was still hanging.

[Chip Hindes]

Had a spare 3" bail so used that, instead of another hound, and moved the jib block to the bail. I use the "jib" halyard for the spinnaker inside its snuffer. My ATN snuffer has an internal halyard for raising the snuffer to release the spinnaker.

So if I understand this correctly, you have moved the original jib halyard to a new location 12" above the forestay hounds, and now use that for the spinnaker halyard.

Do you still use the jib halyard for mast raising duty? Doesn't seem to me like moving it up 12" would have much effect on that use; just curious.

For those with the RF and spin, it appears that everyone furls the foresail completely before raising the spin, and then drops the spin before unfurling the foresail, and few (maybe only Steve, and only once?) have ever tried to run with both genny and spinnaker. For fun I just ran through the latest issue of Sail Mag and found not one photo of a boat running both a spin and a headsail, so that must be the standard practice, but it still seems to me for optimum performance (and unless singlehanding) you might want to be furling the headsail and deploying the spin simultaneously.

[macsailor]

thats what we tried to do.hoist the spin and furl the genny at the same time with some pretty poor results. WE;re going to try it again this weekend, just using the jib halyard.but furl the genny first. We also think that to avoid any mishaps, we'll attatch the halyard and run the sheets back AFTER we furl. MAy take a bit longer to do, but if I were ina hurry, Id buy a speed boat.........

[Catigale]

(maybe only Steve, and only once?)

I tried it but never got it to work well. I was on the Hudson and the next change of course is never more than 90 seconds away..

[ALX357]

I have a spinnaker that came with my boat, and absolutely no interest in using it. Single-handing the boat, my single hands are plenty busy.
Have only glanced at it to see it has no rips nor loose threads, so if someone is interested in the purchase, maybe we could come up with a value.

EDIT... it is 22 X 13, symmetrical, (maybe a racing spin.) ? and blue/white stripes. packs down very light and small.

[SURV69]

I too am a completely SOLO-sailer, but unlike you I NEED to get that spinnaker up . . . even if it's only long enough to get a picture.

[ALX357]

arrrrgh matey,
you young whippersnappers like to show your wild and crazy sailing ways, but i just want to glide along with the least effort possible, being a mild and lazy old salt, myself.
Even if i were an octopuddy, with six extra to grab the wheel, mainsheet, genoa sheets windward and lee, and the spin-chute line and halyard, i'd still have to stand on one leg to have a way to hold my grog.

[MAC26X]

We fly the spinnaker using the jib halyard with no fouling problems. We have the RF but we don't try to fly the genny while the spinnake is up. We also use a Chute Scoop to manage the spinnaker, and run the spinnaker sheets outside the RF. Generally a gybe is easier to manage when changing directions.