Sunshine on the Garmin

[Sloop John B]

Beginning to peruse the GPS market. The Garmin 176c is on sale with sailnet for $534 with a manufacturer rebate of $100.

I was alarmed by one of the reviews: While sailing, if the sun is in front of you, the screen is a complete washout.

When the sun comes in the window and hits my Sony TV screen, its a washout.

When the sun hits my Humminbird fish finder, the grey scale is clearly visible.

I wonder what this reviewer is talking about. Sun hitting the screen?

What if one were to keep it in the shade of a bimini?

Some of you guys must have one of these. What saith thou?

[Paul S]

I found with my old GPS (garmin as well), if the screen got washed out, just move your head a few inches to the left or right and it is fine. I have heard lots of complaints on various models for simialr complaints, but any GPS out in the open will have a bad spot or 2 depending on sun angle. Either cover it with your hand, or move your head. It is not a CRT, so washed out is not the correct term IMO, it is just a reflection of the glass surface at a certain angle.

Paul

[Steve M]

I have one of these GPS's(176c)
It is a worthless piece of #@$%&P
It is useless in sunlight and too small a screen for us aging o'l salts.
I would not recommend it to anyone even if given to you free of charge.
I plan on getting the combo GPS and sounder with a "daylight visible" screen. I will use the 176c for my car as an extra toy.

Steve 26M

[Billy]

I can't speak for the 176c, but I have had the 188c for a little over a year. I've used it in bright sunlight and don't recall any real problem--at least no more than with any other electronic product. May have to provide a little shade. As you suggested, under the bimini (or edge of the dodger) it shows fairly well. At night, even dimmed, it sometimes seems too bright. I have had to block the screen in order to keep my night vision.

On my last trip the unit crashed--electronically. Display locked several times and even went to gray lines across the screen. I cut it off and back on. It retained the memory, rhumb lines and all, and would go back to work. Called Garmin. This unit had only been used about 4 times over the past year--all 1-2 week trips. It was 3 months out of warranty. They agreed to overhaul the unit for half ($110) of the normal charge. Both reps I talked with "stated" they had not heard of a unit doing this. I always seem to get the good one.

Even with the problem, I like the Garmin unit. Next time I'll probably go for a bigger screen--I hate having to use glasses.

[Don T]

Hello:
Also something to consider, these units all have LCD sceens. Since these screens work on the principle of polarizing crystals, polarized sunglasses will blank your screen. I assume you might be wearing them if piloting into the sun.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I've never had a problem seeing my screens with my polarized sunglasses.

My lowrance GPS is just black and white. It is clearly visible at any sun angle.

Some of the early color units relied on backlighting to make them visible. My first palms and pocket PC's were this way. As soon as the external light got to bright the screen faded away. My HP color Pocket PC was like this, useless outdoors in bright sun.

The current generation of all the GPS and PDA devices with color screens use what are called TFT LCD screens with edge lighting. They are Trans-Flective which means the light that makes the screen visible comes from the front and is reflected off a mirror behind the LCD panels. As long as your device has one of these TFT screens, they will work great. My pocket PC screen litterally glows in direct sunlight. I find on a sunny day I turn off the internal light to save power and the display stays very bright with all the external light hitting it, the brighter the sun the more vibrant the display gets.

The 176C has a 16 color TFT screen, I would guess a quite early generation one that may not be as good as the latest ones. The 188C has the same generation screen, just bigger.

The reason you are finding the 176C cheap is it is being replaced by the 276c with a same size 256 color new generation screen and the ability add sounder input using their new universal sounder input unit.

[Frank C]

Not to deny Garmin-marine another marketing edge, but their new "sounder option" is quite a money-maker. You can buy a competing sounder or fish-finder for $200 bucks, sometimes much less. Remember, this gets you electronics, transponder, PLUS a display unit for that price.

Meanwhile, Garmin is willing to sell you JUST the electronics/transponder for $200, and let you "view" it on the display they sold you earlier. Their sounder option probably costs them 30 bucks and should sell for $99. I cannot help but have a sore spot for Garmin and their extra-cost options, and proprietary over-priced maps and sounders.

The marine-GPS market is migrating ... and Duane's on its bleeding edge right now ... simple, generic PCs or PPCs will offer Garmin's output at generic prices, with free maps. I appreciate Duane's pathfinding, and I'll surely follow someday. Garmin for marine use ... not for me!

OTOH, Garmin's route-finding automotive units are quite amazing, and they include the maps. Voice-prompting is nice, but route-finding and the newest "touch screens" are really the next generation in GPS - much more intuitive usage model. (Watch for the touch-screen feature in the newer marine units too - amazing generational leap). I may, indeed, buy one of their auto units someday. The new Streetpilot 2610 is a real technological advance. Buy.com has the older Streetpilot III for $600, but the newer unit is a much better buy at $750 ... (here for one example).

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

You should check out some of the latest street products for the PDA'a as well.

One of my favorites is Tom Tom Navigator, the 3d view is really great. They are even doing a stand alone unit. They have a palm version as well. If your PDA has bluetooth support all you need is a wireless bluetooth GPS and you are set, no cables needed.

[Steve K]

Before you buy GPS for your car. Check this site.
http://www.delorme.com/earthmate/

Pretty cheap, if you already have a laptop.
Don't know if it would be good for marine use or not. Didn't see any chart software. I'll look in the site some more though.

BTW, I've had a Garmin GPSmap 135 w/sounder for over 5 years now. I have the external antenna attached to the starboard stern rail. This gps was expensive, when new (I got it with the boat though). I like it a lot. I do need to adjust the contrast of the grayscale screen often, due to sun angle, but this is an easy adjustment. Most people who I've shown this unit to comment of how fast it starts up and locks onto the sats. Donno, only gps I've ever had.
The map chips aren't real cheap (about $99 bucks each), however, they cover a pretty good sailing area. The chip in my unit, when I got it covers everything from Santa Barbara to Baha and is so detailed that when zoomed, it actually showed the individual finger slips at Dana Point, where my boat was slipped, when I bought it. It also showed the boat icon sitting in the slip, when I was tied up there.
I got an inland waters chip that includes all the lakes in Arizona Nevada and Utah (maybe California too, don't remember). I use this chip when up at Lake Mead, NV.
Funny, the GPS shows me anchored out, when I'm beached up at Mead, due to the low water situation.
SK

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Delorme's product is OK, but you cand get cheaper GPS's for the car. I just use a ETREX, they are about the cheapest out there. You get a useful GPS for hiking, a backup for the boat, and one for the car all in one. The Delorme is only useful plugged into a PC.

They, Delorme PC software, have fallen behind the times and are now overpriced. They are still stuck with an old proprietary interface (Same one they had in the windows 3.1 days) that is just wierd to use. I have used their product for a number of years, but now have switched to Microsoft "Streets and Trips" It's far easier to use, and faster plus sells for only $29. It's PDA component works well and is free.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I have the 176C and I think it is a lot harder reading the display with sunglasses on...not sure if mine are polarized but as they are expensive prescription sunglasses, I would guess they are. Its certainly quite usable under a bimini though...and I have my bimini up about 99% of the time. Traditionally, gray scale devices do better in full sun...but they are still not as visible as you would like them to be..my fishfinder is grayscale.

Other than the sun thing though (which I believe will be similar with most any color unit), the 176c is great, extremely versatile and portable...can be used for boating, car trips, hiking and I use the mapsource software all the time. I got one of those deluxe packages on Ebay last year so it comes with both metroguide and bluechart CD's. Although the 176c is primarily a marine GPS (Waterproof, anchor alarm, etc.) and can not do auto-route on highways like its streetpilot sister units, it gets the job done out on the highway...and the mapsource software does support auto-route function on the laptop.

[Jack O'Brien]

Talking with a genuine Garmin employee at the boat show recently and he cautioned that Garmin does not honor warrantees unless the owner can provide a receipt from an authorized dealer. Lots of these cheaper units on ebay would not be covered, he said. They also do not sell refurbed or new units directly to consumers - you must go through an authorized dealer.

[BK]

I noticed that the new 276C garmin GPS runs on recharageable lithium batteries that last 5-15 hours. A lot of places where the GPS would be used may not have 110v to recharge. Such places as 220V overseas, hiking, RVing in the wild or free places with no hook ups or in Mexico where the current is not stable and may damage the unit. I would not buy this unit for that reason alone. I think AA batteries is better. I once bought a camera that run on these lithium batteries and they are very expensive.
I do not think it is practical to have 256 colors. It takes more juice and programming to run all these colors. Do you really need all those colors? The shade of water in 80 different colors is not needed. I think 16 on the 176c is fine.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Yea, seeing as you can buy a set of 1800 mA rechargeable double A's for about 10 bucks these days, I prefer the 4 AA's of the 176C. I use mine to do all my home based activities (transfer of routes, tracks, and waypoints) as I never bought an overpriced 110V power adapter for it. My rechargeables last 2-3 months with that kind of duty. When it is actually tracking satellites though, its plugged into 12V either in the boat or in the car.