MacGregorSailors.com

Okay I've read everything here and you guys are awesome--it really is an online "community." I downloaded the 26M manual and also recently received a copy of the Mac26M video on DVD in the mail. It was weird watching the video after reading so many of the posts here.

Of course the first thing that made me roll my eyes watching the video was the race staged between the X and M. After all the posts I've seen with the dismissively joking "blue (fast)" asides in them I just assumed the race footage between X and M was little more than sales-driven hype.

My question--just for you M owners out there who have seen the video, how much of it is hype and how much is true? I'm thinking about the speed claims under power, the footage of apparent effortlessness of tacking and sailing to windward (even with just the main!), Roger's description of the hardware on the boat as "first class" and the actual usability of the trailor.

I've seen posts here where people talk about the the trailor swaying all over the road above 55mph on the highway and posts where folks describe road trips from Washington State to Florida--no problemo. And similar contradictory statements on the other issues I mentioned above have been posted-- and don't get me started about the varing posts regarding proper engine size--oy.

Also Roger shows off the sailing potential of the boats in the video with heavy use of the roller-furled genoa option, a combination that many here have avoided and Blue Water Yachts appears to reject at least in part with their "Pearl" and their suggestions on their website:"go jib" says Todd& Cheryl.

And almost every boat in the Mac26M video is blue and many here whack the blue gelcoat as impractical because it is scratch-prone susceptible fading and needs more regular care.

Please-- you X'rs out there, and you know who you are --Chip, Catigale, Frank and others, please hold your powder. I know you love your X's and probably view the video claims as nonsense when they refer to your beloved model.

I'm looking for responses from 26M owners who have seen the video. How close does it come to the reality you've experienced?

I like the Mac 26M -- in concept --but does it deliver what Roger promises in your real world experience in terms of quality and performance?

Much thanks for taking the time to respond!



(search terms: pros & cons, vintage, comparo, comparison)

There have been some horror stories on initial quality. Luckily, they seem to be the exception rather than the rule. We had a few minor issues, for which the factory shipped us replacement parts. Replacement parts, by the way, that have never been installed, to give you an idea of minor the gigs really were...

I think most would agree that the trailer is adequate, at best, for any real towing. Even in the lightest duty possible, about 300' to the water from mast up storage, I busted two winches last year, which would be my first suggested trailer upgrade by the way...

With that said most of the real horror stories you hear about traler sway and other problems are at least partially due to equally inadequate tow vehicle. Can you tow it with a Honda Civic? Well, its been done, but I wouldn't... I guess what I'm saying is that, as much malined as the trailer is, a more significant tow vehicle would help alot...

I have a white hull, and so won't address your blue hull questions. Reasons why one would choose white over blue have been discussed again and again... Of course, that blue does make for a pretty boat...

The marketing hype boils down to saying that the M is faster than the X, in all phases of operation. Although, you'll notice that they talk in terms of one or two knots... I think most will agree that skill, weight, distribution of that weight, HP, etc. can all be more significant. So, yeah, I do beleive that if you had an identically equiped and crewed X and M, the M would pull away. But, you are just not going to have that. I've said before that I have absolutely no doubt that Chip, in his X, could out sail me any day. With my current 40hp, he could also out motor me... The bottom line, I guess, is that if you are so concerned about that 1-2 knots, that it will be the deciding factor for you, then you're looking at the wrong family of boats to begin with... These are just not designed to be performance boats. They are jacks of all trades - master of none...

As far as roller furling v. hank on, I have a hank on jib. I think that's a good call. But, that's just my opinion. I store it in a jib bag on the forestay. So, the only difference for me and a roller furler, is that I have to pull the bag off, before I can raise it, and I can't roll it down to less than 100%... I don't mind that trade off with respect to dealing with a furler when raising/lowering the mast, etc... This is just a personal choice that you'll have to make...

The M like the X is a compromise boat at best. It sails well. I am sure there are boats that sail better. It powers well enough. Could be better..but it is acceptable for a sailboat. It is easy to rig (once you get the hang of it).. It launches fine. recovers fine. I would strongly recommend a bow roller like I did (see Here )

I think the promotional video (saw it a while ago) was typical marketing material. The statistics are somewhat overexagerated. The specs are under perfect conditions, etc.

But this is truely the only boat you will get that fits this niche. By all means do not decide your purchase based soley on the promotional video or the dealer literature.

We had a spectaular amount of drama with our 04M (read about it in the forum). But I would still recommend it for what it is..and what niche it fills.

Paul

Already responses are on the mark. Thanks. Please more thoughts!

The only item I'm sure of on your list is that blue hulls are faster Mine is 2 years old now and shows many war wounds. The black around the windows is the color that oxidizes fastest though. I wouldn't trade my blue hull for anything. In a few years I'll paint it with Imron urethane. I think that Mike Innmon,and the rest of Roger's clan making that video were pretty good sailors. The sailor seems to be just as important as the boat from my observations. 1 or 2 knots faster is a bit much ? Races are won by a quarter knot faster, usually. The worst part about sailing to windward is the high freeboard. It's like having another sail on the side. That causes "crabbing", and makes it more difficult to point. That is the price of 6' headroom. I made my choice,and it's worth it to me. The M sails really well on main alone. I have a 150 genoa with roller furling, and like it, although a 135 will be my next purchase. I have tried to drive onto the trailer like the video shows, and took out my goalposts. It is only possible with no current or wind like in the video. The slightly less rounded hull in the aft section allows it to plane, but may slow it up downwind? I'm not sure, but the hull is fastest heeled over from 10 -20 degrees abeam or slightly off the wind in my experience. It's probably as fast as similar sized hunters and Catalina's? I hope to find out this summer?

Promotion Hype? Well, who would not want to show their boat in the best picture?

I cannot say that I can disprove anything in the video.
M faster than an X. A little but as stated, neither is a racer. Think CRUISER'S.

Trailer swaying - Ummmm. Any single Axle trailer will do this. If you are planing on trailering far. Get a proper tow vehicle and put on another axle.

Roller-furler. It is great if you do not want to go forward to lower the sails, store the headsail below or for a qiuick sail change. However, it does lesson the sail performance.

Blue hull - I bought the white because of the heat and sun in Florida.

First rate equipment - yes. He buys in volume so gets a GREAT deal.
Just compair what he buys- http://www.macgregor26.com/items_we_pur ... _list.html

Does it deliver up. I think so. All boats have there weak points.

I have done 1000 miles on mine in less than 5 months. Will do another 1500+ in 6 months. This is more than most do in 5 years.

I was wanting a "Blue Water Boat" when I was looking at the .
This was the best deal all around. I can buy more than 2 Mac's for a Dana 24. For the price differance of other Coastal Cruiser's I can fix/repair/Mod quite a lot.

I owned an 04 26M blue for 1 1/2 yrs. If I were going over again I definetly would not order blue. It is a great color but you need to see some that have been used for a while. Any marks show easily. I waxed mine a lot having it next to my house and I just never stayed looking great. The balck is horrible. I fades no matter how much you wax it and after time it looks BAD. Overall the boat is great. It does have limitations like other say.

And no the BLUE is not faster. Just people throwing jabs at each other. Just my 2 cents worth.

I trailer my boat from home in Northridge 35 miles to Marina Del Rey, over the Santa Monica Mountains, on the infamous 405 freeway, every time I go sailing.

I am getting really good at set-up and de-rig, but it still takes me 50 minutes up (and usually something goes wrong) and 30 minutes down, and then there's the extensive washdown. After the washdown, it takes me 45 minutes to secure all of the cables, antenna, roller-135 jib, for trailiering so nothing rubs. My winch rubbed a hole in my jib once when it was touching.

I have had no problems with my light duty tow vehicle (Toyota Sienna), get good mileage towing and have to watch my speed on the level as I can easily go 70 mph if I'm not looking. I have no problems going over the pass as long as I'm not trying to go over 60 mph. I get concerned when big California 4X4s jacked up to the sky blow by me at 90 mph - yeah, then I get swaying, but I think it is more a function of my small hitch and lack of rear load springs. My AWD yanks the boat right out and I drain the ballast on the ramp.

The hardware works great and my only problems have been self-caused. Mac owners know what this means.

Don't EVER try to drive onto the trailer.

My wife and I love the boat, and it really does everything well. The M is slightly faster than the X, but the X interior / cockpit has its own advantages. If all-out sailing performance is your thing, like the guys above have said, you are in the wrong market. But we can power beyond their range, anchor in the shallows close-in, and trailer in & out to where-ever we want. I would like to get another 2-3 knots under power loaded, so if I was doing this again I would advise you to get a 90-hp motor. I'm still trying different propellers (see other thread).

Everyone is friendly and helpful, and we are enjoying meeting the Mac owners at our ever-frequent outings. Read the descriptions of the group trips to Catalina in Upcoming Events.

I got blue, my wife and I love it, and I have not touched it or waxed it - yet. I've got no scratches and no fading.

Go for it!

Mark Karagianis

Please-- you X'rs out there, and you know who you are --Chip, Catigale, Frank and others, please hold your powder. I know you love your X's and probably view the video claims as nonsense when they refer to your beloved model.

First ....... I'm hurt.
OK. I'm over it.

I don't believe that any the claims in the M video are any more or less nonsense than those in the X video. Which means of course, that many of them are pure nonsense. Do you think if the M wasn't faster, Roger would admit it? What Roger are you talking about? Not the Roger we know and love.

But in fact, though it's been discussed, even argued frequently and vehemently, the only place I've seen it actually stated that an M was faster than the X is in the video.

Should the M be faster than the X? Roger's claims seem plausible and reasonable. I accept for a fact the 26D is considerably faster than the very similar 26S. The rotating mast should be faster than the non-rotating. So I would have to say yes, it should be.

But has it been actually proven? Not to my knowledge by a disinterested party; in other words, not by anyone who didn't have something to gain by claiming the M was faster even it if wasn't.

If, as DLT says, the M is in fact "only" one or two knots faster than the X, I can only say, "You've got to be kidding me." In fact, one or two knots is positively huge. It's 85-150 seconds per mile. A difference of that magnitude would have it passing the 26D like it was standing still, and the PHRF rating would put the M in the same class as many of the pure racing boats.

Speed kills... The bottom line the mac. Is the perfect boat for someone that doesnt want a slip, doesnt want a bigger boat, has a limited time to use it, has a small family, and wants to be a part of this great group.

Performance sailing, motoring, room to relax easy to tow is all there. Video or not, hype? I was sold so were alot of others. Im not disapointed and not many others are. We dont rant and rave about this boat because we want to cover our horrible mistake in buying it. We really like it.

But from time to time we get this kind of question and sometimes i wonder if the person making the question is serious or just trying to open a can of worms.

The boat will do everything that the video shows it will i can pretty much state that there were no trick photo ops in the video. It really was launched by a large car and towed with it. It really will get up and go with a motor, it really does sail nice.

I have a 26M and watched the video 100 times while waiting for mine to be delivered.

My opinion after one year of owning an M is that the M is a super boat and I am glad that I bought it. But speed between a X and M is very subjective. Where I sail, there is my M and three Xs. The Xs can beat me every day of the week because those guys are more experienced than I am. They know the finer techniques and can pass me up. Experience is a key factor with any type of device.

Is the video a slick marketing tool? Yes it is and it is what everyone of us would put out there if we were selling the next model of Macs. Did Roger stage things to appear more positive with the M? You bet. Who would invest considerable capital in a new design and not try to highlight the positive? I would. Anyone selling a product would. The M has hull design advantages.

Is the M better than the X? Yes it is. Is the X better than the M? Yes it is. Both have unique design qualities. I like the interior of the X over the M. I like the M hull design better.

I looked at both models, figured that Xs did not depreciate very much, so I decided to get a new boat and gain with some new hull features.

I haven't seen the video so I can't directly comment on it. I assume that if it's a video of live action that's what's really happening. I've had some trouble sailing into the wind on only the main. The boat tends to have a lot of weather helm and leeway unless I get the speed up and gradually point up. Otherwise it sits there with trimmed sails but stalls out. I'd like to trade notes with Richard on that point. I've been wondering if the stock sails aren't quite right.

You need to consider the winds in which you'll be sailing the boat as to what size headsail to get. I think for most people the 150 genoa is overkill (that's what I have on a roller furler). On the other hand it comes in handy when going wing-to-wing downwind. It's also fine in light winds. It actually does work to furl it partially if the wind comes up. We raced 3 bouy races in Canada last year with a partially furled genoa and a reefed main. The genoa shape wasn't real good but on the runs we were able to let it all the way out. Winds were gusting to 30 knots. I also have a jib that I use about half the time.

Every X I recall chasing down on the lake I've been able to pass or keep up with. I'm not sure how much this means because they may or may not have been trying. I don't think the speed difference is greater than 1 knot.

I've had good luck with the trailer with a couple of exceptions: The tires that came with it were poor and they were coming apart after one of our road trips after about 2000 miles. The winch frame (not the trailer) bent due to stress and I noticed that on our trailer it's actually mounted "backwards" because of the ladder. I put bigger tires on the trailer, modified the fenders, and that solved the first problem. I reinforced the winch and that's been fine ever since. This is my 3rd Mac (previously they were Mac 25s) and I've never had a serious trailer issue. When we get over about 70 mph there is some sway but it's not nomally severe. We trailer the boat quite a bit.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that adding weight to the keel is a safe and useful mod. It's a little work but can be done in a weekend.

baldbaby2000 wrote: I've had some trouble sailing into the wind on only the main. The boat tends to have a lot of weather helm and leeway unless I get the speed up and gradually point up. Otherwise it sits there with trimmed sails but stalls out.

Daniel, I'm glad to hear your daggerboard mod may be a success? Last weekend was the first chance i had to try my "fixed" mainsail. Cutting the boltrope free, and letting it slide up the mast has made a considerable difference. Now I feel like the main has taken on more of the shape in the brochure photos. The wind was barely 5 kts. so I really went for a "float" instead of a sail. I was single-handed, and more concerned with getting all my lines straightened out, so I didn't try to tack much. Last year I had great success tacking with Main alone, and a whisker of Genoa showing in 10-15 kt. winds, but often stalled under 6kts. or so. This is partially lack of experience on my part , I figure. I've read that you must bring her around slowly. I don't know how they do that sweet 180 degree in the video? None of the other boats , a Hunter 26 water-ballast, and some 23' sloop? had much going either , I observed. For Macseeker's benefit, I would like to add that I'm in my 60's , and launched before the powerboat on the opposite side of the ramp from me, and long before another sailboat with a keel opposite him. They both had crew helping them. Perhaps that was their downfall? I store mast-up, but still can't imagine an easier sailboat to launch, of this size.

I absolutely loved our 2004M and I watched the Promotion DVD all the time. It is PROMOTIONAL DVD...not a Documentary movie, but what do you want? A fair comparison between a Catilina 26, Hunter 26 and a Mac 26? We all would...but not from any manufacturer.

Having sold our 2004M in the process of moving up to a Bluewater boat, I would do the exact same thing and buy a Mac!

These posts are simply outstanding!

Just so everybody's clear, I'm the Mac type all the way, a middle class guy with a wife and three young kids looking to share an activity with but with a wife who doesn't want to be limited to six knots and buying something we can only use when the wind is up and have to slip or store at mucho extra cost-- she'd be bayliner all the way if not for the mac. I'd like to sail for the peace and quiet when the kids are at gramma's but need a power boat for the regular majority aboard. I have no dreams of racing but actually love the idea expressed again and again on the board about just enjoying the peace relaxation of floating along and gunkholing a bit to get a breather from the madness of daily life.

I absolutely was not trying to "open up a can of worms" or be intentionally provacative. It's just that I've also watched that dvd about 140 times (my wife calls it my "sail porn additiction") and I am very close, about a month away, from pulling the trigger on an M. So of course I've got a little cold feet close to the "marriage."

But I get it--if you want the unique compromise offered by the mac platform and at a remarkably reasonable price, then the mac is the right choice because there are not very many like it --even at three times the price. It's simple, mobile, affordable and relatively easy to use.

When my daughter, age 6 going on 7 saw the video, she immediately got the Mac concept of vesatility. We were talking about potential names and the first one she came up with was "Anything's Possible" because of all the things she saw that the boat could do. Talk about "out of the mouths of babes come gems!" and so we immediately decided to christen our future 26M "Anything's Possible"--pretty cool.

Finally, I really don't care which boat was/is faster (X or M), I just noticed that that was something everybody often kidded around about here.

As people posted in this thread, their personalities, experiences and strong points of view -- expressed via so many other posts were evident. It was actually cool to see not only support for the boat, but see expressed in a way that was in line with how many of you have commented on a host of different topics. It's very reassuring.

I look forward to helping other folks as you have all helped me better understand this great craft as I begin our mac adventure. And ofcourse I look forward to being chastised by Chip when I offer up something lame, illogical or simply not grounded in scientific fact

Thanks again to all of you not only for these posts but for so many of the topics and posts you have offered on this and on the mods board. I mean this sincerely when I say Roger MacGregor owes this board a great debt. It is a tremendous resource. The thought and time people put in to their comments and the creativitiy shown by the mods large and small have to have a very positive impact on those considering a Mac. I know they have on me.