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I also posted a topic below this one entitled "Can my Jeep Cherokee Tow a Mac 26X ... " - I have another question. I actually have two vehicles towing options and would like to know if my 1998 Grand Caravan would be a better option then the Jeep Cherokee limited (6 cyl,2 rwd):

The Dodge Grand Caravan is a 1998 SE model with a 6 cylinder, 3.3 litre. Front wheel drive with 4 speed automatic transmission. It's older with 150K miles on it, but in real good condition. Mechanically strong. I bought this van used & it did not come with the factory "Heavy Duty Trailer Towing Package (HDTTP)" as mentioned in the owners manual. I've "turned wrenches" for many years and installed a heavy duty DrawTite hitch on it myself - rated to 5000 lbs, 500 tongue weight. I also installed a transmission oil cooler as extra safety. Now, the Caravan Owners Manual states the "Max. combined weight of vehicle and trailer not to exceed 6,350lbs" if you don't have the "HDTTP." Now, the empty weight of the van itself is 3,600 lbs. That only leaves 2,750 lbs. for trailer, boat, people and gear. Ok - I'll have to call Dodge dealer to see what I have to add to make the van a HDTTP - as the manual states it's good up to 8,300 lbs. total with HDTTP- that leaves 4,700 lbs for trailer, boat, people and gear.

I read a forum topic here where a person trailered a Mac 26 M with his Dodge Grand Caravan. Any comments on me using my Grand Caravan to tow a 1998 Mac 26X? Can a 2 fwd pull it up ramps? Thanks so much!

The Dodge will *not* handle that load. The weak point on that car is the transmission and I pretty much guarantee you'll be replacing it very soon after you try. I know - I have a Dodge Caravan. I would never tow more than 2K with mine, regardless of any tow package. The tow package doesn't install a stronger gearbox, they only pop in a cooler. The fact is that the clutches in that gearbox are only barely sized for the job they do already, and you'll really be stressing them by adding a lot of weight to the overall package.

One other note: That Chrysler gearbox is *very* particular about what fluid you use. NEVER use anything except ATF-III. If you do you'll ruin the box in a matter of months. The computer that controls the gearbox uses a calculated slip coefficient and the ATF-III fluid slips at the proper rate. If you use any other fluid the computer will *not* compensate for this and the end result will be either slipping clutches or ones that grab too soon... either way, the 'box will pack up in short order. I change my fluid myself because I even caught the dealer installing the incorrect fluid! (Oh, and don't let the dealer tell you that AFT-IV supercedes ATF-III.... they are wrong - the two fluids are very different. AFT-III is the only stuff to use, just like the factory put in there. I use the Penzoil brand, but there are others.)

Kevin,

I think you meant to say "ATF +3" transmission fluid.

Actually the ATF +3 has been replaced by ATF +4.

So use ATF +4. And I would change it every 2 or 3 years.

Never ever put Dexron III in a Chrysler minivan transmission.

Also, I would not tow the Mac with a Chrylser minivan.

Added:

Check this site for more info:

Chrysler Minivan Forum

Actually, Pete, it kinda depends on the brand you're buying. It is alternatively called "ATF-III" or "ATF +3", but it's the same stuff - it's all 7176E transmission fluid.

As to the difference between ATF+3 (7176E) and ATF+4 (9602), they are *very* different... ATF+3 is non-synthetic and ATF+4 is synthetic... ATF+4 has modifiers to improve cold weather performance, reduce foaming, improve rust prevention and hold viscosity for over 100,000 miles. However, since I have a cooler and I change mine at least annually (less than 30K miles), none of those properties are of benefit to me. Further, from that same forum you suggested there is this:

You can use ATF+3 with all older Chrysler transmissions (except as noted below - some Jeeps). ATF+4 is another story. This is from a Chrysler engineer:

If there is a doubt about which grade of ATF to use, follow the owners manual recommendation. AFT+4 in certain specific tests was shown to be incompatible with certain seal material. This incompatibility may cause a premature failure depending on the duty cycle of the vehicle. The fluid will work as intended however, it may cause a seal failure.

I've seen this same seal failure happen when using syntetics in older cars (like changing to Mobil-1 motor oil in an older car's engine) - suddenly the thing springs leaks everywhere. No thanks. I'm sticking with what went into the tranny at the plant, Pete. Change it often, don't stress the gearbox and it will last a lifetime. Annual changing is *really* cheap insurance.

Kevin,

I agree on all points.

The problem is that no one in my area stocks ATF +3 anymore. Maybe a Chrysler dealer does, but I recall reading that they were switching to ATF +4 also.

You should be able to get Pennzoil down there in VA, and I know they make ATF+3 - heck, it's only made a few states away!

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BTW, in an interesting side note, in 2003 there was an FTC complaint filed by the Independent Lubricant Manufacturers Association (ILMA) against DaimlerChrysler Corporation (DCC) for "violations of the “tie-in prohibitions” under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act ... and the rules of the FTC promulgated under the Act for the automaker’s ATF+4 transmission fluid."

Essentially, although DCC specified ATF+4 for warranty work, they would not release the formulations for ATF+4 to allow the ILMA's other manufacturers to make ATF+4, thereby creating an illegal "tie-in" situation and causing ILMA members to lose contracts with Chrysler dealers for their products.

I mention this, because in that complaint the ILMA's reveal the content of an interesting Chrysler Technical Service Bulletin (TSB):

On October 22, 1999, DCC issued a “Technical Service Bulletin” (“TSB”) to its Chrysler dealers, indicating that the Company had begun using a new automatic transmission fluid – ATF+4 – for certain model vehicles. DCC said that the new fluid would be used for additional Chrysler vehicles during 2000. A copy of this TSB is attached. The TSB states, in part:

• Effective immediately, it is recommended that all vehicles with Chrysler automatic transmissions except for 1999 and earlier minivans be serviced with ATF+4®. ATF+3 should continue to be used for 1999 and earlier minivans because of the potential for torque converter shudder during break-in. For all other applications the ATF+4® fluid offers significant benefits as outlined below.
  * * * *
  Mopar ATF+4® is a World Class Fluid having exceptional durability.

On June 29, 2001, DCC issued a complete revision of the TSB, noting that the ATF+4 fluid applies to all Chrysler vehicles equipped with automatic transmissions, except 1999 and earlier minivans.

Despite that service bulletin I've found Chrysler dealers installing ATF+4 in pre-2000 minivans - in fact, they tried to in mine - and the technician and service manager both insisted to me without equivocation that ATF+4 replaced ATF+3 in all Chrysler transmissions.

No wonder Chrysler minivan's have a horrible reputation for transmission failure - even the dealer can't maintain them properly!

I tow with a 2000 Cherokee Sport 6 cyl 4wd, 200 mile round trip to
the key's with no problem.
This year I bought a alum tandem axel trailer for $1400, I installed
Kodiac disc brakes. You will have to modify the trailer bunks, as
all used trailers are for powerboats.
Would have responded sooner but have been out of town.

I tow mine with a 2006 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited with the 4.0 6cyl. I have a new Al trailer that was custom made for me and it rides fine up to about 60-65; above that it gets a little squirly I assume beacuse the Jeeps wheelbase is so short.