Rudders Not Parallel

[Bransher]

The MacGregor 26M manual says:

You might also check to make sure your rudders are parallel with each other. If not, they tend to fight each other and create unnecessary drag. You can adjust them by judiciously bending the tiller cross bar.

I had not noticed it before, but the rudders on my new 2007 boat are definitely not parallel. When the port rudder is straight with the centerline of the boat, the starboard rudder is towed in towards the centerline. It is very noticeable to me now, and I am surprised I had not noticed it before.

The method of adjustment as stated in the manual seems to be rather crude, inaccurate, and difficult to accomplish. I assume that it would require me to disassemble and remove the cross bar from the boat, place it in a vise to bend it, then reinstall it and then check the alignment. I foresee me having to do this several times before getting just the right amount of bend.

Has anyone had experience with this method? Better yet, has anyone made some sort of threaded rod to replace the tiller cross bar that would only require adjusting a couple of nuts to achieve the proper alignment? Your input would be greatly appreciated.

[beene]

HERE YOU GO



Neither are mine.

G

[delevi]

The method of adjustment as stated in the manual seems to be rather crude, inaccurate, and difficult to accomplish. I assume that it would require me to disassemble and remove the cross bar from the boat, place it in a vise to bend it, then reinstall it and then check the alignment. I foresee me having to do this several times before getting just the right amount of bend.

Yes, crude, inaccurate, and may require several attempts. Been there, done that. Looks like Been (post above this one) gave you the link describing the experience. An adjustable threaded bar may be the solution, but probably something you would have to have made. Not sure it's worth it since once you go through the hassle to get your rudders parallel, you won't need to do it again.

[Paul S]

I am wondering if the rudders not being parallel could be the cause, or partly the cause, of the steering rack failures that yours truely, and others here have experienced?

Our boat steering was OK, out of the water, but in the water, at any speed, it was very hard to steer

Seems like the tie rod connecting the rudders needs to be 'adjusted'

Does anyone know what the distance between the 2 holes should be? Just asking to minimize the on/off/on/off the boat that I suspect I will have to do.

I know it will take some effort to bend the pipe.. I was thinking of fabricating something..like a car with tie rod ends.. but if I can get it close..it should be a one time adjustment and I wont bother..

The stock setup is simple, reliable (if a bit, well a lot, sloppy).

If I ever go to the effort of doing an adjustable tie rod setup.. where would one get SS pipe, around 4' long (or whatever is needed) and appropriate stainless steel tie rod ends? I would prefer to do it all without welding, I don't want the entire boat relying on how good a weld holds.

Paul

[Andy26M]

I've done this by bending the rod. I took out the tie rod and then put the rudders parallel from out side the stern and clamped them in place using some scrap lumber and clamps. Then I crawled back inside and measures the distance required as accurately as I could. That way, I could bend the rod and measure it outside without doing the back-and-forth trial and error drill.

In order to avoid kinking the tie rod (a piece of stainless pipe) I did not bend it using a vise, instead I stuck it between two closely-spaced tree trunks and pulled on the end bit-by-bit to get the measurement between the two end holes to match what I had measured inside the boat.

I didn't get it exactly perfect, but it is within a quarter inch and is a massive improvement over the original set up.

I suspect that every boat is slightly different based on how the rudder tubes wind up sitting in the transom, so getting a measurement from someone else's boat is probably not going to help - if two boats match, it is probably more by coincidence than by careful standards at the factory.

- Andy

[Paul S]

I figured the boats would be made a bit more accurately..

If there is such variation from boat to boat, you would think they would make an adjustabel tierod end(s) or at least adjsutable like the stay adjusters with lots of holes to adjust.

Also, wouldn't one think that they would do an 'alignment' at the factory before each boat left the factory. Would be nice! They have all the pipe bending equipment and the manpower..Oh well

Not a show stopper..

But I am still wondering if the mis-adjustment could be a contributing factor to the failed steering racks.

Paul

[Paul S]

Another thought...

At first I thought the rudders being out of parallel was an ackerman effect... nope.. just shoddy manufacturing!

[Paul S]

I've done this by bending the rod. I took out the tie rod and then put the rudders parallel from out side the stern and clamped them in place using some scrap lumber and clamps. Then I crawled back inside and measures the distance required as accurately as I could. That way, I could bend the rod and measure it outside without doing the back-and-forth trial and error drill.

In order to avoid kinking the tie rod (a piece of stainless pipe) I did not bend it using a vise, instead I stuck it between two closely-spaced tree trunks and pulled on the end bit-by-bit to get the measurement between the two end holes to match what I had measured inside the boat.

I didn't get it exactly perfect, but it is within a quarter inch and is a massive improvement over the original set up.

I suspect that every boat is slightly different based on how the rudder tubes wind up sitting in the transom, so getting a measurement from someone else's boat is probably not going to help - if two boats match, it is probably more by coincidence than by careful standards at the factory.

- Andy

How did you get the rudders 'parallel' with all that slop? Did you tighen down the rudder hinge bolt? tighten the linkage inside?

paul

[Bransher]

Thank you everyone for your replies, and to beene for his link to the old posting. I have not yet decided if I will fabricate something similar to Octaman’s solution. He sure did a nice job and it is too bad that the factory did not give us something like that.

[beene]

You are welcome.

I would like to cut the bar on mine and have someone weld a large turnbuckle system onto it.

That way I could really fine tune the alignment.

One can dream can't they?

G

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Seems like you could do it without welding. Get a heavy turnbuckle and some bolts with fender washers, a hack saw and a drill.

Set the turnbuckle to a mid-adjustment the hold it up to the tube.
Drill holes where the eyes of the turnbuckle land on the tube.
Cut out a section of the tube that will allow you to adjust the turnbuckle.
Bolt the turnbuckle to the tube using the holes you made. Use fender washers to keep the bolts from slipping through the turnbuckle eyes.
You could also add a SS pipe clamp up above the eyes for more stiffness.
You might want to put a dowel in the tube so you could tighten the bolts nice and tight without collapsing the tube.
Now adjust the length with the turnbuckle body.

As I have an X I can't try it, but I would think this would work just as well as the welded version.

[Frank C]

Great Idea, Duane. Some refinements . . .

• You can reduce "system bulk" (streamline the entire thing)
  by inserting the turnbuckle (TB) right inside the gap you've cut in the drag-link tube.
• The TB's eyelets can just be "pinned" by the thrubolts piercing each end of the cut section.
• I'd use nylon spacers on those thrubolts to center the TB's eyelets within the tube.
• Finally, use an external sleeve to stabilize the cut section ... say a length of PVC that just fits around the OD of the drag-link.
• Slide the PVC back to reveal the TB for adjusting, then slide it across the entire joint for stability during use.
• (The sleeve prolly needs to be split lengthwise along its bottom, to clear the thrubolt's nuts.)
• Seems to me it would work well on the 26X's drag-link, too.

[Hardcrab]

Geez guys, it's not hard at all to make an adjustable "tie-rod" to replace the 1" SS bent tube. Mine has been in use since Feb, just over 1000nm, and the mod has been flawless. All was purchased from the internet from just two locations.
You'll need to source a 48" long, 1/2-20 (fine thread) SS all-thread stock,($20) a package (10@$8) of 1/2-20 SS nuts, 1/2-20 SS tie-rod ends (google Midway Control Products, model SSE, $8.00 each), a hack saw, tape measure, and some imagination.
(With that said, I used two 3' all-thread pieces, cut to +/- 24", joined in the middle with an all-thread 3" long coupler nut and jamb nuts. Shipping was cheaper and the coupling nut allows for a third adjustment).
Note that the bends in the stock tube are to allow for clearance around the steering cable attachment point. Crawl under there and see why it's needed when the helm is turned. You do not have to duplicate these bends. The factory tube is installed on the upper side of the "Pittman" rudder arms, causing the need to bend the tube. However if you, like I did, install the tie-rod ends up from the bottom with the nuts on top of the "Pittman" rudder arms, then clearance around the steering cable attachment point, or any other point for that matter, is a total non-issue.
The 1/2-20 all-thread ends up as a lower hung, straight shot across to the other side mod. Adjust all you want to your hearts content.

The real tie rod ends are far superior to the"stick- a-bolt- through- holes- drilled- in -tubing- as- a- pivot- point- method." Argue all you want about the relative strength of 1" tube vs 1/2" all thread. It works fine, is easy to do, and inexpensive to boot. That sloppy feel to the helm was reduced too, Duh!
I have more detail if anyone cares.

ON EDIT: Make that Midwest Control Products. (www.midwestcontrol.com) While there, check out the Quick Detach SS Tie rod ends used in BWY's engine disconnect bar. Note the price.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Seems like you could replace the whole thing with threaded rod and a turnbukle body that fit the rod. Cut two sections of rod, shape as needed, drill for the endpoint attachments, thread each into the turnbuckle body and install. Add a couple nuts to tighten as jam nuts to lock the turnbuckle in place.

Will a rod solution flex more than a tube one?

[Hardcrab]

Duane, see above reply.
By the way, I will voice an emphatic "NO":

"A Straight, 1/2- 20 Stainless Steel All Thread Rod with REAL Stainless Steel Ball Joint Tie Rod Ends does NOT flex, rust, bust, or collect dust under any load I can subject mine to, under sail or 90hp motoring..."

IMHO and direct experience, worry not.
However, YMMV if deemed so.

ON EDIT: I am refering to the "M", to clarify my remarks.