Mast Raising (doing this wrong?)

[MadMacX]

Hi Guys,

While reading through various threads last night I came to the conclusion that I might be raising my mast incorrectly. My Mac is equipped with a furler so I don't have a front stay....or a jib halyard for the matter. The following photos shows how the top of my mast is rigged, and as you can see I have only one attachment point on the front of the mast. So, to raise the mast I have been using the block shown in the picture, at the top/side of the mast, with the line coming forward. To me, it seemed that when I raise the mast, the mast was being twisted as it was being raised. The PO told me to raise the mast this way, as that was how he had always raised it. Should I be looking to make some changes?

As always, your assistance will be appreciated.

Regards,
Pat

[K9Kampers]

When you say the mast is "twisting when being raised", is it the mast or the mast hinge? I'm picturing the mast being raised without the baby stays. Are you using the short pair of wires that attach to the mast at about eye level and the cabin top? These stays prevent the mast from falling to the side while raising. If this is not your twist, please descibe it differently.

[MadMacX]

Yes, the baby stays are attached when raising the mast. When I say twist, I mean that the mast swings out to the port side until it gets to about 1/2 way up, then it seems to straighten out. To my way of thinking, the mast should be "pulled" from the center front of the mast, rather than from one side or the other.

I may just be a little paranoid, but the mast seems to be very "heavy" in the initial stages of raising. Add to that the way it swings out to the left at first and I get the idea that something just isn't right. In the Speedy Rigger video, they show the guy just lifting the mast up with little effort. When I tried that, I about killed myself!

Regards,
Pat

[K9Kampers]

By your last description, it sounds like your baby stays may not be properly attached to the cabin top, OR their length (one or both) is too long.

The bottom angle piece of the stays only attach to one place on the deck.

For length adjustment, pin the stay adjuster channels in the middle setting. By this, I mean, align the bottom hole of the single section half of the adjuster with the middle hole of the double section adjuster half. Use this setting as a starting point. Always make the same adjustment to BOTH stays.

Adjust as felt necessary if it is too tight/loose after another attempt. Re-pinning above the middle hole adds length to the stay & can increase mast sway while raising.

In a properly working system, the heaviest effort will be when raising the mast from horizontal to about 1/2 to 2/3 up. There should be no mast wandering to either side. Keep an eye on all the lines / rigging / stays, as anything that snags will increase your effort.

[MadMacX]

BINGO!!!!! K9 I believe you got it. The right stay was loose compared to the left stay. It was off about 1/2 a hole from the left. I'll drop the mast today (when the rain and lightning stops) and see what difference it makes.

Thanks for the help.

Regards,
Pat

[Derek Wenn]

Something else that I find helpful is to lower the front end of the trailer and gravity will help in raising the mast and keep it inplace while you secure the forestay. I learned this the hard way with my Hobie when it fell backwards on top of me once! I always have a helper when setting up the boat and they help raise the mast to head height making it easier to raise with the winch.
Derek

[K9Kampers]

That's a good observation Derek. Next time I raise my mast in the driveway without the mast raising system, I'll try that. Otherwise, I would hoist a line to the spreaders to cleat before pinnig the RF.

[Frank C]

I've never seen a Mac with the main halyard block on portside of the mast. Is that your main halyard?

Regardless, you shouldn't be using that halyard for mast raising. It clearly is pulling the mast to port, plus it would be twisting the mast dangerously at the point where the forestay can be pinned (assuming your rig is tuned tightly - properly). Finally, that halyard mounts 4 ft higher than the forestay, so during mast raising it places undue stress at the masttop.

SOP is to use the jib halyard for mast raising. It attaches at the forestay hounds and should be attached for a center-pull during mast raising ... not side pulling stress like the main halyard. If the PO removed the halyard in favor of the furler, it's time to add another. It also serves to hoist a hank-on sail or hoist the jib sock. Some have added a second hound, about 6 to 8 inches higher on the mast, which avoids any interference with furler rotation. It can also be used to fly a spinnaker.

An alternative is adding a dedicated mast raising line down lower on the mast, maybe at the spreaders. However, that point provides less leverage on the mast as you try to pin the forestay.

[MadMacX]

I've never seen a Mac with the main halyard block on portside of the mast. Is that your main halyard?

Regardless, you shouldn't be using that halyard for mast raising. It clearly is pulling the mast to port, plus it would be twisting the mast dangerously at the point where the forestay can be pinned (assuming your rig is tuned tightly - properly). Finally, that halyard mounts 4 ft higher than the forestay, so during mast raising it places undue stress at the masttop.

SOP is to use the jib halyard for mast raising. It attaches at the forestay hounds and should be attached for a center-pull during mast raising ... not side pulling stress like the main halyard. If the PO removed the halyard in favor of the furler, it's time to add another. It also serves to hoist a hank-on sail or hoist the jib sock. Some have added a second hound, about 6 to 8 inches higher on the mast, which avoids any interference with furler rotation. It can also be used to fly a spinnaker.

An alternative is adding a dedicated mast raising line down lower on the mast, maybe at the spreaders. However, that point provides less leverage on the mast as you try to pin the forestay.

Frank, my Mac has a block on both sides of the mast, nothing in the front. Now you understand the point of my original post, that it just doesn't seem right to raise the mast by pulling it from one side. It is my opinion that I should be pulling straight on.

My Mac does not have a forestay, or as far as I can tell a jib halyard, only the furler. The PO has added several things to the mast, but has also taken off many things, which adds to my confusion. I have read the Mac manual from beginning to end, several times, to get some idea of how the mast rigging is supposed to look, but none of it looks like mine. I have some additional hardware, and some missing hardware. So far I have only sailed with the main sail, as I try to figure things out.

I purchased the Speedy Rigger vid to help me setup my Mac, but after watching it I realized that he had parts I didn't have and I had parts he didn't have. Very confusing.

Back to the question at hand, if I understand you correctly, I could add another hound above the furler attachment point and add a forstay and a mast raising line? If so, I like that suggestion because, while it may be redundant, it adds an element of safety that appeals to me. Would it be normal to have both a forstay and a furler? I trust the 6-8 inch higher mount would also allow the forstay to clear the furler drum? Since I am already going to replace much of the rigging hardware, it would make sense to add the forstay mount and jib halyard block at the same time.

A big Thank You to everyone for your helpful advice.

Pat

[argonaut]

From your pix you appear to be missing a block and a halyard.
The X normally has a block attached as Frank describes to the same hound that the top of the furler connects to.
Even boats with furlers will have a halyard on the port side running from the cleat at the mast base on that side up to the block and back again, as you would expect to find if you didn´t have a furler.
The end normally used to attach to the head of the jib is what we normally connect to the ginpole.

Have your shrouds been moved or something, because they look to be closer to the masthead that I´d expect to see...
I can look at mine but I thought there was maybe 8-10 feet of mast between the speaders and forestay hound and the masthead. Yours looks like maybe 2 feet.??
If it were moved there would be an extra hole in the mast, I´m thinkin.

[Trouts Dream]

As for the forestay. You do have one running inside the rolling furler. When you get a chance, you should raise the bottom of the furler and check the status of the connection. If you google CDI Furler you can find a pdf of how the CDI is put together and some checks for it.

[Kelly Hanson East]

Hey Pat - do that post above thing PRONTO....if that forestay comes loose on this boat, the whole thing comes down on you in the cockpit btw

[Scott]

My Mac does not have a forestay, or as far as I can tell a jib halyard,

Yes you do, and you do not have a block for the jib halyard. This is the common point to raise the mast from.

As a side bar, I don't see a Jib cover either nor a sunbrella wrap. The jib halyard is how you would raise a jib cover. One would significantly increase the service life of a sail.

Close up of jib halyard block. Do not use a quick pin as seen in this pic. The stresses are too great and I would anticipate failure and demasting. Use the bolt!!

[MadMacX]

Thanks Scott. I understand what you mean, but I believe that I am missing a few items. As the photos show, I have no jib block, but I have a block on the port side that I have no idea how it is used.







I also understand what you mean by a jib cover, as my sail is showing signs of deterioration, but since I had no jib block, or jib halyard, I did not know how a cover could be added.

As a newbie, some of this is just plain confusing and frustrating, and the MacGregor Owner's Instructions make things as clear as mud. I think that it would be wise for me to just go back to the OEM setup and look at adding a furler as my skill level increases. I have spent considerably time setting up and taking down the mast to get a feel for what needs to be done. Along the way I have removed a few items the PO added that did not make any sense in the operation of the boat. There was the bent bail at the bottom of the mast with the bent bolt that prevented the mast bolt from sliding into the hinge plate. Then there was the three extra cleats attached to the mast with nothing attached to them, plus numerous other items. I'll get it eventually, but for now, I'm going to go back to OEM.

Thanks,
Pat

[Beam's Reach]

If the extra stuff that the PO added isn't in your way, try to leave them alone.

I took a few things off because I couldn't figure them out and they didn't appear in the manual that I downloaded. Over the last couple of years, I've figured some of them out (often from this board) like the double line reefing system, and a jackline system and wished I hadn't removed them.

Blake Beam
Beam's Reach