for the first time I wished I had a displacement hull

[hart]

Spent my first overnight on the boat this weekend, overall it was nice but yesterday afternoon the wind really picked up. At first it was fun, then it was time to reef but since the wind was blowing directly from the direction I needed to go in a relatively narrow bay I decided to drop the sails and motor home. I wasn't the only one Apparently it was a good call as the wind picked up more. Every sailboat I saw had dropped sails except for a few hardy souls in a couple of those little snarks or sunfish type boats. It was quite windy and just about every wave was whitecapping.

Anyway, the sea was running about 45 degrees off the port bow and whitecapping like crazy, the wind was just off the bow and the X was dancing like a drunk boxer. It was a bit unnerving. Boards up at higher speed, boards down at slower speeds it didn't matter she was jumping all over the place. I don't believe it was ever dangerous but man it was trying.

It seemed to ride best (and that's a relative term) at about 6 knots, fully ballasted with board and one rudder down. I was still constantly fighting with the wheel. I was just curious if anybody knows of anything else I should try next time?

[LOUIS B HOLUB]

My "X" seems to "PLOW" through high waves with a full ballast at approx. 6 knots real well. But, any slower, and it bounces & rolls & pitches around like a cork.

When my sails are down during high waves & winds with an empty ballast, my "X" acts like it wants to "roll over" -- gets a little scarry sometimes. But, with full ballast, it acts like an OIL TANKER...it just "plows through" just fine.

The interesting thing about a MacGregor...its like having 2 different boats when the ballast is filled, as opposed to when the ballast is empty. With or without the ballast, my "X" reacts & handles a lot differently when motoring in relation to winds, waves, crowded waterways, docking, etc.

Ive had my "X" 2 years, and I'm still learning about her characteristics . Its a real "trip"

[jaguar496]

a few weeks ago, Alice and I had to motor home for 2+ hours. wind on the nose, seas on the nose, approx. 4-5 feet, peak to trough, 4-8secs. peak to peak, wind approx. 15kts, and our home was on the nose. I ran 2200rpm, 5-5.2gps, full ballast, both rudders, and a foot of daggerboard. needless to say, "THE RESTLESS TWO" thoght she was a porpoise when in sync with the approaching wave wall. although the pounding felt and heard below could have startled some, the Admiral handled it like the salt she is, and other than having lots-o-spray in our faces, we never once questioned the integrity of our blue hull All I can say is, we were conditioned well by all the forum discussions, therefore, we can only say that our time on the water is always a JOY. Alice and Stew,"THE RESTLESS TWO"

[delevi]

In rough waters, I find the boat handles better under sail vs. power. Besides, if you can't motor past 5-6 kts, might as well sail. Doesn't quite work, however, if your destination is directly upwind and you're running out of time.

[hart]

Okay, sounds like I had her set right then. Yeah, I think she would have been okay under reefed main but it would have meant lots of short tacks and probably doubled my trip time. Thanks for the responses. I think I had hit my limit based on my experience with the boat so far but I doubt it had hit it's limit yet.

[RickJ]

A few weeks ago I had to make a run home in winds that were picking up to around 30 kts, with seas building to 3 ft or so. I sailed on just the jib, and partly furled it as the wind increased. I was managing 3-4 kts on a close reach, and it was kicking around a lot in the seas, needing a lot of work on the helm. Even on jib alone I was heeling 30-40 deg, but never felt I was losing control.

I think if I'd motored I'd have got a lot wetter, and probably not gone much faster. With the sea coming on the windward bow, the heel of the boat meant the waves were hitting the bottom of the hull, not breaking over the side. If I'd been motoring with minimum heel, then I'm pretty sure I'd have had a lot of breakers over the decks and cockpit.

I felt better keeping dry and saving fuel.

Cheers, Rick

[enufsed]

I envy all of you who can get your X to TURN.

I've been playing with my X all summer in light winds and strong winds and cannot get the thing to tack!

Last night was a good example -- strong wind and quite big waves. We pointed into the wind to raise our sail and once the sail was up we fell off just a bit and sailed along. Then I wanted to switch directions -- you know, to do a beam reach or run. I could NOT get the boat to move past the point of directly into the wind (to tack) even if I fell off a bit and took a run at it.

The we found we couldn't move much in the other direction either! We could not jibe.

We tried all this over and over with sails out, sails in, jib up, jib down. At some points I tried to use the rocking of the waves to help put us past the point of tacking or coming about, with no luck. I even grabbed the boom and tried to help it along.

I have sailed other boats and have to say that the "sail" performance of the Mac just SUCKS and I'm starting to feel I cannot take the boat on the big trips I'd hoped on the Great Lakes. Looks like it will be sunset cruises in mild weather and river/canal holidays only. I am very disappointed.

[delevi]

Enfused,

I haven't sailed an , just my but don't recall anyone unable to tack let alone gybe the boat, except one person on this board (maybe you... not sure) who couldn't tack in light air; however, I believe this person was new to sailing. I would suggest trimming the sails for the direction you intend to steer either simultaneously or prior to steering i.e. If you want to fall off, let some sheet out on both main and jib, then fall off... you may find that the boat will actually steer itself to the new course. To tack, sheet both sails in hard, make sure you're sailing close (but not pinching) and bring her through. Don't oversteer! I can't stress this part enough. Turn the wheel 3-4 revolutions, slowly, then bring her back just after you cross the wind. If you apply too much helm, you'll stall the rudders and the boat may not tack. Don't release the jib sheet before you cross the wind, then releases quickly and set the new working sheet. As for gybing... the only reason you wouldn't be able to gybe is if your sails are trimmed in, thus the sails overpower the rudders because they're not trimmed for sailing off the wind, but rather want to pull the boat to windward. Let them out... fall off then gybe. You may want to sheet in the main just as you're going through the gybe, then let out so the boom doesn't slam hard.

Sorry if you already know this sailing 101 stuff. Otherwise, try it out, practice, and enjoy.

cheers,
Leon

[opie]

Enfused,

Please do not despair! Your X will perform well with more experience. When I first got my X I had similar problems, In fact, one time I was approaching a sea wall and the X would not tack or jibe and I was confused and frantic.

The problem you are experiencing is solved by learning how centerboard, swing keel, sailboats behave. These boat are different in the way they handle vs. keel sailboats, and many books are only about keel boats. At different angles of the CB and at different sizes and angles of the jib and main, the boat will behave differently. Many good how-to-sail books have CB sections describing the way to use your boat's talents. (Try finding one about sailing or racing 'dingies".)

I practice what I read. For example, today, in the ocean 0 to 5 miles out of Wilmington, seas 2 to 3 and wind 8 to 12, I practiced sailing and turning the boat with the wheel lashed straight-ahead. CB all the way down. With the 125% genoa all the way out, I could steer the boat by moving the mainsheet in or out. For example, on a port tack, bringing the mainsheet inwards, turns the X to port. Letting the m.s. out turns the X to starboard. At equilibrium, with the sails adjusted, I went 10 minutes at a time on my port tack, dead east into the sun (845am), without touching anything, just sitting sideways on the cushions and looking at the blue-green water, even staring behind at the foam trail as the X glided along.

Herein lies the lesson that I learned. If I had wanted to go at the heading I was on (90 degrees) without balancing my sails at center-wheel setting, I would be setting up the very problem you describe. For example, if I had the mainsail "in" too much, the boat would try to turn to port, and I would have to correct with turning the wheel to starboard (called "weatherhelm") and I would have to hold the wheel to the right, with effort, to maintain the 90 degree heading. Whereas, by balancng the sails, I had no weatherhelm and no effort at all to maintain course. ("Look ma, no hands....") (Who needs an autopilot? Just like Joshua Slocum, right? )

Now, the problem you had may be (or maybe not, since there may be a hex on your X) that you have the sails and wheel wrong before try your tack or jibe.

For example, think of the centerboard as the fulcrum point of your boat. If the wind is 45 degrees on your port nose, and you have more jib effect than mainsail effect on this port tack (p.t. means the wind is coming over the port side of the X), then the boat will want to turn to starboard. If you have more mainsail effect than jib effect, your X will want to turn to port. (Think of it as the wind pushing on the aft side of the CB fulcrum point, perhaps this can be called center-of-balance of your X.)

Now, on this port tack, using the first scenario of too-much-jib effect, since your sail setup is trying hard to turn the X boat to starboard, and you are fighting that effect with turning your wheel to port just to maintain course without turning to starboard, and then you decide to 'tack' (thru the wind by turning to port) and you throw the wheel more to port, you can see that you have set yourself up for failure. The strong jib-effect will prevent the tack, and your weatherhelm has already used a goodly amount of your wheel movement.

Reading sailing books and practicing in wide-open areas are my recommendations. If you are practicing in a confined water where a mistake will take you into dangerous proximity to rocks, piers, shallow water or other boats, then you will never learn the methods needed since you will be too worried to try 'stuff'.

Learn to love the X as most of us do. I had the bestest time today ( and most all days that I get to go out). I practiced Man Overboard drills by throwing out my Clorox bottle with a rope tied on it. I saved the bottle 2 times out of three.... I used the beam-reach and return approach taught me by my ASA instructor. Works most of the time and will work all of the time when I have a few more years of practice probably.

I guess, as in most things in life, practice makes perfect. I suggest a combination of maybe some ASA courses, dingy sailing book reading (dingy sailboats had centerboards like the X) and much practice with your X in open water.

Fair Seas,

Opie

[SailDog]

I envy all of you who can get your X to TURN.

I've been playing with my X all summer in light winds and strong winds and cannot get the thing to tack!

Last night was a good example -- strong wind and quite big waves. We pointed into the wind to raise our sail and once the sail was up we fell off just a bit and sailed along. Then I wanted to switch directions -- you know, to do a beam reach or run. I could NOT get the boat to move past the point of directly into the wind (to tack) even if I fell off a bit and took a run at it.

The we found we couldn't move much in the other direction either! We could not jibe.

We tried all this over and over with sails out, sails in, jib up, jib down. At some points I tried to use the rocking of the waves to help put us past the point of tacking or coming about, with no luck. I even grabbed the boom and tried to help it along.

I have sailed other boats and have to say that the "sail" performance of the Mac just SUCKS and I'm starting to feel I cannot take the boat on the big trips I'd hoped on the Great Lakes. Looks like it will be sunset cruises in mild weather and river/canal holidays only. I am very disappointed.

We're just wondering if your CB is stuck; not dropping down all the way. We've had our "new to us" X out twice so far this summer, planning on #3 tomorrow. On the very first time we raised the sails we just sat there floundering in light winds. We had nuthin... We dropped the sails, motored away from a dark cloud, then tried again. This time we looked at the CB rope and said, "hummm." We dropped the CB, the rope dropped about 2 feet, and we started sailing! Tacking, jibing... 2nd day we were doing Man-Overboard drills.

[ronacarme]

Enfused....
1. Note the above thread "Centerboard depth....", and numerous prior threads, on the need to adjust CB positioning, to match changes in sailplan, and to a lesser extent in course and heelangle, and thus maintain helm balance (and thus steering response) on the X. The X also has relatively narrow ,easily stalled foils and so needs boatspeed, to steer. Given that , the X steers nicely. The X wants to be treated like a big dinghy, not a keelboat.
2.Rolling while motoring can be reduced, by carrying full ballast and, if wind speed is low enuf to permit, carrying a full or reefed main, sheeted in fairly tight .
Ron

[c130king]

Enufsed,

And for now...until you get better at it...you can practice tacking and gybing with the motor down and turning over very slowly to help you keep some way on thus helping your rudders to be more effective.

Also, when tacking, don't release the jib/genny too soon. As your bow comes through the wind allow the wind to pull your jib/genny to the other side before you release the original working sheet and tighten the new working sheet. This is called backwinding the jib. This will help pull your bow through the turn.

Keep at it and good luck,
Jim

[bubba]

We (my wife asnd I ) enjoy sailing in heavy wind. We practice here on the Columbia river where we get stady 35 mph breezes and have had lots of practice with our 3 reef positions quick reefing system. If you read the Mac's web site and owners manual it says to sail the Mac as flat as possiable, and the one stock reef point on the main leaves too much sail up to sail safely in heavier than 20 mph wind. Our 3rd reef is set up for heavy wind with 5 to 8 ft swells and it works well and sails safely especially when using the motor at about 1500 rpm's for a more stable stearing in large wind swells. We made the mistake of not using at least the 3rd reef and just the motor to go out in 5 ft wind swells and the ride was not very safe untill we put up the 14 ft of sail our 3rd reef offers and the cut thru the waves and got very stable like a great sailboat should.

[opie]

How did you get the additional reef points in? Order it? Do it yourself? Have orig sail modified?

And a p.s. to my earlier post, I find out that 'weather helm' is the boat trying to turn toward the wind and 'lee helm' is the boat trying toi turn away form the wind. And 'lee helm' is not safe....
Thanks.

[Hamin' X]

Danger, Will Robinson!

Be careful about reefing too deep in rough seas. As the main is reefed, the center of effort is moved forward and will reduce your weather helm and can induce lee helm. This, in conjunction with roller-reefing headsail can create a dangerous situation, should the wind puff a little harder. The roller-reefed headsail moves the effort more aloft as it is reefed and the wind increases. this will induce more heeling moment. This is why most serious of-shore cruisers use a trysail instead of reefing too deeply on the main and will hank on a storm jib while totally furling/removing the headsail.

~Rich