Permanent Sail ties.

[Scott]

On the new Cat 22 we got i was wondering what the sagging length of bungee under the boom was.

Figured it out.

When it had some elasticity in it, it was a permanent sail tie.

There is a pad eye at each end of the boom. (The rear one is 6" forward of the clew and the fore on is between the gooseneck and vang attachment.) There is a stamped steel hook in the center at 30 deg around the underside of the boom facing outward. A length of bungee is run from one pad eye to the other.

From the rear cross section of the boom the pad eyes are at 4 o'clock and the hook is at 8 o'clock.

When you have the sail flaked or gathered you grab the bungee in the middle, stretch it over the sail and place it under the hook!

Permanent sail bungees!!

Spicoli is stoked dude!

Aloha Mr Hand

[Oskar 26M]

Cool mod Scott.
I've been toying with the idea of installing something similar on my instead of the ball bungees I use now.

Your post helped me realise that I've already got the necessary hooks and eyes on my boom as a result of installing this lazy jacks system:

(redrawn from a pencil sketch posted on this forum, in which I can't quite make out the name of the original author)
So all I need is some more shock cord.

[puggsy]

Those lazyjacks look like mine...except that the starboard red line does not have to start from the mast...it can be a bit away. And small pulleys where the red meets the blue...and another where the one blue splits to two blues. The original boom , mine anyway, did not have any fittings along its length for attachment points. Just made some up from small cleats. The fixings here need to be so they do not ' drop off' . At minimum, tied on with a bowline.
also lazyjacks do not do away with sail ties...Once the sail is droppped and held from flopping each side of the boom, the sail does still need tying with the ties.

...regards...Puggsy

[Oskar 26M]

Glad to see you refrained from going out in today's 50 knot breezes puggsy

My lazy jacks do sound the same as yours (pulleys are show as sm blocks on the diagram) and the red shock cord bungie does not attach to the mast .... its just my lousy diagram.

I agree about the continuing need for sail ties, but fumbling with ties on a 26M cabin top is a task I dislike, especially when the Mac is rolling around in a bit of a chop. The idea of permanent ties that I cant drop overboard therefore has considerable appeal.

Now I'm wondering if, instead of running an additional sail tie bungie, I might be able to grab the lazy jack shock cord (red) from its hook in the middle of the boom, pull it under the boom, around over the sail and back to its original hook. It wont snare all the sail, but it should get most of it. Repeat the process with a couple more hooks spaced out along the along the boom and and the sail should be quite snugly secured.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be welcome

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Funny you guys should bring up this topic, as I was just pondering it yesterday when out on my Mac. Ahh, the sailing season is just starting to get going down here after the less desirable summer season...

Scott, the solution you mentioned sounds interesting, but does it only hook at one place? If so, I wouldn't trust that to keep the sail under control on the boom in a heavy wind.

I have a line (do they call it a spider line?) that goes from end to end on the boom, and then every 1.5-2 feet or so, there is a bungee or sail tie tied into the line, so they are always there for me to tie up the sail when I bring it down. But there are quite a few problems with this set up:

1. If you use ball bungies, they are more likely to smack you in the face if you miss the right spot, also the balls tend to break in half over time.

2. With the sail ties, the velcro ends up wearing off and I end up tieing them in a knot.

3. With the hook bungies, I have to be careful that they do not catch on a lifeline when the boom is coming around. Also, they are deteriorating quickly and I can't pull them very tight anymore for fear they will rip apart.

Sooo, my next idea will be to replace all three of these with just a small piece of ordinary line every couple of feet (good use for one of my worn out sheets). I really think that I can tie a double knot just as fast as I can line up a piece of velcro or use a bungie. And this is going to be an even simpler solution, no hooks to get caught in things, no bungies to whack you, etc.

[Oskar 26M]

Good to hear that I am not the only person who manages to whack himself (usually in the head) with a ball bungie. I like the idea of permanent short lines along the boom but wouldn't you run the risk of fouling them in lifelines etc?

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I doubt they would get fouled with no hook on the end, plus, they would need to be as short as possible...which means the ones toward the mast will be longer. I plan to change to this method soon so I'll let you know how it turns out. I plan to measure and cut the lines with the sail on the boom so that I make them just long enough but no longer. If I use something like 5/8 inch line, it should be less likely to twist and foul like a thinner line such as 1/4.

[Scott]

On the Catalina it would appear as though this would be plenty of tie down power fo a short sail as we now have. I havent measured but I believe our main is near or every bit as long in the foot as the Mac.

If a fellow wanted more wraps why not 3 padeyes (one in the middle) and 2 hooks (splitting the pad eyes?)

You would then have 4 wraps instead of the 2 that I originally described.

BTW, in all the years I owned a Mac, I only ever used 2 lengths of 1/4 in line to secure the sail.

[Chinook]

I got tired of holding bungee sail ties in my teeth when tying down the main. I found a neat solution at West Marine called the Sail Lash Centipede. It is a length of bungee material which attaches to the underside of the boom. Every 3 feet or so a set of sail tie bungees are attached. These ties use a loop on one side and a short wooden peg on the other. The lengths are set to fit the tapering size of the furled main. When the sail is up, they dangle down, and are always there and ready when the time comes to drop and secure the main. They work great.

[Divecoz]

Bill .......At Boats 4 Sail installs a bungee the length of the boom. On one side is the bungee on the other are 3 stainless bolts and large stainless fender washers. I drop sail pull it down on top of the boom and pull the bungee over the top of the sail and hook it over the fender washer 3 times in about 60 seconds and head into the Marina. Just ANOTHER little extra when you buy from Bill @ Boats 4 Sail who is a Sailor versus some salesman selling power boats and. . . . oh yea those sail boats over there too. I also got a custom topping lift and a dozen other Sailor Salty Gadgets with my boat.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I don't quite get how that works. If you have the three bolts (ie. hooks) all on the same side and the bungee is on the other side, then how does the bungie make more than one "wrap" around the sail? Seems like somehow you want to zig zag the bungee so that it is holding the sail down at several wrap points. Also, those bungies start stretching out after a while, for example, the ones I use to hold my rudders down now need to be pulled several more inches to get the same tension on the rudders as when they were new about 5 years ago (frankly, I'm amazed the constant Florida sun hasn't done them in...very good quality stuff from WM I must admit). So, you would need some way of tightening them up over time so that they have a good pull on the folded sail.

[bubba]

Here is photos of our reef ties . http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42 ... ing009.jpg We use 1 inch straps with different colors for each reef and they have plastic clips to speed the time on deck.

[Scott]

\
On Edit: Bubba, what are the ammo pouches mounted along your boom for, PWC ammo?

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Thanks for posting that Scott, worth a thousand words for sure. Maybe 4 padeyes and 3 hooks would be the perfect number for a Mac length boom. Any recommendations on a good thickness and length for the bungee, maybe 3/8 inch and a foot longer than the boom for the knots?

[Frank C]

The way I read it, don't need hooks ... just screw a large washer to the boom, then stretch the bungee over the washer.

Great idea~!