Tell me what is wrong with this picture

Paul S · Post by **Paul S** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:08 am

I am pretty sure I have the answer. But what is wrong with this setup (click image for larger picture):

My inverter crapped out after turning it on, there was a 'pop' and the wiring fault light came on.

Here is the sequence of events:
Charged the battery from a 3 stage charger. Checked the electolyte level and it confirmed a good charge in all banks (got to love wet cell). Topped off the water in each.

Trailered the boat. Turned inverter on. As soon as I did, heard a 'pop'.

What happened? why did it go pop and why is the inverter dead? I installed everything so I only have myself to blame.

Paul

Paul S · Post by **Paul S** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:31 am

21 views and no reply

This is an easy one.

From charging, the battery naturally off gasses Hydrogen, which was ignited internally inside the inverter, causing something bad to happen to the unit.

Sounds good anyway. Anyone want to second this theory?

Now I got to move the inverter out of the way...or vent the compartment better...or start to..lol...

Lets count how many rules I broke in this install

Something for everyone to review on their own boat

Paul

Post by **kmclemore** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 am

Hmmm.. not sure that's your problem, Paul, but I've not come up with anything better yet. I'm doubting the H2 explosion because there would be other evidence in the compartment, not to mention having the cover blow off.

I was once badly burned in such a manner... I was abt 17yo and working as a mechanic in a garage... the battery of an old Mercedes had been on charge all morning, and I was under its bonnet doing a tuneup... owner came 'round and before I could say 'Wait!.. No!' he unclipped the charger from the battery without unplugging the charger first... well, the MB's curved bonnet had trapped a considerable amount of the outgassing H2 and it went off with a BANG!!... it blew the bonnet back into the windscreen and smashed it, the top of the battery was blown off and I was blown back with my eyes, face and upper body covered in battery acid. I was able to quickly flush my face and eyes in the slop sink, but the damage was done - I didn't see well for many months, my skin soon came off in sheets like a really bad sunburn, and my eyebrows and some of my hair was gone for quite a while too. (Editor's note: However, my teenage acne was greatly improved by virtue of the impromptu chemical peel.)

H2 can be a nasty beast... but in your case, I'm thinking that if there was enough build-up to blow the inverter, surely there would have been plenty to blow the compartment top off, and likely to have singed things too.

Paul S · Post by **Paul S** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:08 pm

The pop sounded like the one we did back in school in physical science...

did not say it off gased a lot...best theory I have come up with.

Early in the season when the house batt was not charging..it never went pop. just after it started getting charged regularly.

If it IS that...got to be more careful

Of course..everything I read..says not to put a battery in a compartment without vents...not to put the inverter close to the battery.. yadda yadda... I break all the rules...

Paul

jklightner · Post by **jklightner** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:00 pm

Sometimes things just die. Had a customer with a dead inverter (30kw) and he did some poking around inside before I got there. He noticed the 555N chip was blown and asked me " the 555 is a timer, what's it timing?" I replied " your warranty, when it expires, that blows up" (actually it was part of an oscillator circuit). BTW, maybe you removed them for working, but shouldn't battery terminals be covered to prevent the dropped tool from shorting out the posts?

dclark · Post by **dclark** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:05 pm

I'm no scientist or anything and maybe that's the problem, but I don't think I understand...

Are you saying hydrogen got trapped in the inverter (it looks lower than the battery in the picture)? Then it stayed there thru all that checking and trailering, then the inverter created an internal spark which caused some kind of a mini hindenberg thing?

Post by **kmclemore** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:15 pm

Electrical things like to make nice 'popping' sounds when they go, though... I had a transfromer up on the pole across the street go out in a storm once and I must say, it did rather 'pop' a bit... more of a horrendous BANG, actually, with a nice display of pretty lights and sparks to go with it... so your inverter blowing a component and making a noise wouldn't surprise me... time for a post-mortem if you ask me.

"Nurse, my scalpel please...."

Mark Prouty · Post by **Mark Prouty** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:53 pm

I question your theory Paul.

Air is 14 times heavier than hydrogen; therefore, hydrogen rises rapidly. Your inverter is sitting low. Even if the hydrogen was the source of the pop, the inverter must have been defective to create a spark large enough to cause the pop.

The hydrogen was produced as you charged your batteries. After you charged your batteries, you checked the electolyte level and topped off the water in each cell of the battery. During this chain of events the hydrogen would have had time escape. Remember hydrogen is 14 times lighter than air.

Paul, if this were a a court case and hydrogen were on trial, I feel the jury would have to aquit.

(hee, hee)

http://www.cheresources.com/battery.pdf

Paul S · Post by **Paul S** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:17 pm

dclark wrote:I'm no scientist or anything and maybe that's the problem, but I don't think I understand...

Are you saying hydrogen got trapped in the inverter (it looks lower than the battery in the picture)? Then it stayed there thru all that checking and trailering, then the inverter created an internal spark which caused some kind of a mini hindenberg thing?

Thats the only thing I could come up with..I would only get the pop after the battery was charged either by charger or motor.

No charging..no pop.

I even left the cover off for a while before turning it on..to ensure it was clear. (I DID think about this before this happened)

Other than that I have no clue why it died.

I did replace it. I'll see if it happens again.

Unless the unit was just a faulty unit, did not like trailering, or whatever...

Only 2 theories I could figure out. The installation looks OK to me. Do not think it was an installation issue.

I will take other theories...

FWIW ...this is the Costco unit for $70 (later reduced to $29, bought 2 more).

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:16 pm

How dry is your bilge area? These inverters and most electronics hate moisture of any kind and even a humid bilge will do in most household appliances. I can almost bet if you take apart your unit(after disconnecting) you will find either corrosion or burn out resistor.

I had the same thing happen to my charge regulator for my solar panel. I thought I had a pretty dry bilge too. Hmmm.

Paul S · Post by **Paul S** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:35 pm

Russell wrote:How dry is your bilge area? These inverters and most electronics hate moisture of any kind and even a humid bilge will do in most household appliances. I can almost bet if you take apart your unit(after disconnecting) you will find either corrosion or burn out resistor.

I had the same thing happen to my charge regulator for my solar panel. I thought I had a pretty dry bilge too. Hmmm.

No water...Try and keep it vented as well as possible.

Since they market the inverter to boat owners...one would think it could be better corrosion resistant..if that is what it is.

That would not account for the inverter not making popping noises some times ...mmm

Paul

Paul

Dimitri-2000X-Tampa · Post by **Dimitri-2000X-Tampa** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 6:54 pm

Yea, I agree with Kevin too...the Hydrogen theory is quite a stretch and I've heard lots of electrical devices go pop myself. In fact, before I finally bought a 12V TV for my van, I used to use the cheapie 300-400W inverters to run a TV for the kids on long trips. I think we went through 3 of those things before I finally wised up and bought the AC/DC TV.

There is likely a fuse in the inverter which you could check, but unfortunately, every time one of mine would fry, it was never the fuse

Post by **kmclemore** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 7:09 pm

Hmmm.... you mentioned that it only happened(s?) after a charge... well that kind of makes sense... after all, perhaps it only goes 'pop' when the batteries have enough juice to make it go 'pop'... in other words, it takes a specific voltage or amperage to take it over the limit, and that higer quantity of voltage/amperage is only available after a charge.

Just a thought.

Paul S · Post by **Paul S** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 7:42 pm

kmclemore wrote:Hmmm.... you mentioned that it only happened(s?) after a charge... well that kind of makes sense... after all, perhaps it only goes 'pop' when the batteries have enough juice to make it go 'pop'... in other words, it takes a specific voltage or amperage to take it over the limit, and that higer quantity of voltage/amperage is only available after a charge.

Just a thought.

Could be. No idea what is poppin though. One would think the external fuse would take hit for any over amperage.

Another bit of info...the only thing I usually run on the inverter so far is running the (800w) coffee pot (4 cup). So maybe the constant strain of running close to the limit put it over the edge...

Paul

Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL · Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:49 am

Regular or De-Caffeinated?

MacGregorSailors.com

MacGregorSailors.com

Tell me what is wrong with this picture

Tell me what is wrong with this picture

not a clue, but...

Just my guess

Re: Just my guess