Doyle Stackpack

[extreem]

I just installed a new set of KH 2000 sails on my 2001 X. While installing, I decided to go with the Doyle Stackpack at the same time. My first sail of the season was this past weekend, and I have to say, what a PITA. Maybe I didn't get the system rigged up right?? Fisrt off, when the sails are full, the lazy jacks distorted the sail shape, this was cured by loosening the jacks but had to re-tighten before lowering sail. The sail would not lower on its own from the cockpit, the biggest reason for purchasing the Stackpack in the first place. I still had to go to the mast and manually stuff the sail into the pack. I still need to do a little work to get the reefing working also.

Does anyone have any experience with this system? The installation manual leaves alot to be desired so I had to make several assumptions during the install. Everyone knows what happens when you assume.

[Scott]

Years ago when I was considering similar options for my X I got some sage advise from an old salt by the name of "Bill at Boats for Sail"

He said he thought that due to the size of the sails on these boats (small) you were better off with as little flaking options as possible. IOW dont do it.

Years later, I would say I halfta agree.

[Highlander]

First off spray the mast slot with about 4 coats of sail kote or other simular product this will help the sail sluggs drop faster & maybe add a down haul I am poss thinking of adding one "down haul " myself ! . I like the look of the stackpack but I have lazyjacks already installed & a new matching colour mainsail cover that will still work with the lazyjacks on , you will have to easeoff the lazyjacks when sailing

J

[mikelinmon]

Totally true about Doyle stackpac, sail is too small to lower on its on, not enough weight to fall in a tight bundle while confined inside the lazyjacks. If you have to go up on deck to fold, why bother. The extra time req'd to stuff the mainsail into the "stack" added to the extra time to put on the sailcover, regular sailcover wil fit with less effort not having to deal with the lines of the stack pac. Anyone else's type of sail handle help seems to suffer same problem.
Enter, Mike's boom rails. A set of short, four 9" long lifeline posts screwed to boom at 1/3 and 2/3 back on the boom, wire streched from tip of boom to end, angled about 45 degrees outboard. The lazy jacks attach to tip of lifeline posts, which spreads the lazyjacks apart, now the sail will fall down and not hangup. This was developed for one of my customers who decided he was to old to get up on deck ( it wasn't you Rick, he was real old). I wish that was enough, almost enough. You know! a frog is a bird almost, when he sit he stand almost, when he jump he fly almost, a frog is a bird almost. Biggest problem with boomrails is the extra time spent covering the sail, although that is done at the dock. You could use the roller furling boom with sail cover builtin but it's too costly, even I admit that.
Mike Inmon

[extreem]

Enter, Mike's boom rails. A set of short, four 9" long lifeline posts screwed to boom at 1/3 and 2/3 back on the boom, wire streched from tip of boom to end, angled about 45 degrees outboard. The lazy jacks attach to tip of lifeline posts, which spreads the lazyjacks apart, now the sail will fall down and not hangup.
Mike Inmon

Maybe I could come up with a way to use some sort of flexible material perhaps a carbon fiber rod or something similar to still use the stackpack but hold it open so the sail falls into it more easily. I don't want to give up on it just yet. I do like the way it looks and the idea of raising and lowering sail from the cockpit. The sail does raise and lower much more easily with the sail slugs, it's just that it will not go into the pack on it's own.

[heinzir]

I use a partial furling system that has worked flawlessly for me for the last 20 years. It consists of 4 short lines or shock cords that extend from the leech of the sail to sliding snap hooks on the topping lift. The two lower ones are attached to the reef cringles and the next two are attached to light grommets I added to the leech. The lines are slack when the sail is up. Because of the geometry of the sail leech and the topping lift, they tighten when the sail is lowered. This pulls the leech aft and forces the aft half of the sail (the part that would otherwise fall into the cockpit and get in the way) to flake itself neatly on the boom. There is no strain on the mast slugs whatsoever and the sail drops easily all by itself.

This does not furl the forward part of the sail, but that is not really a problem; it can be dealt with at leisure. This system does keep the cockpit clear. I have a shock cord running down one side of the boom thru a fairlead in the middle. Two hooks on the opposite side make tidying up the rest of the sail simplicity itself. I can drop my sail and have it furled ready for the sail cover in less than 10 seconds.







This is not an original idea. North Sails marketed such a system many years ago. I think their mistake was trying to apply it to the entire sail instead of just to the aft half.


Note: I used to use lazy jacks before I went with this system. I found the lazy jacks to be too much of a PITA


Henry
Chiquita
http://sports.webshots.com/slideshow/230613770IXBurv

[delevi]

I use a Dutchman system which is fabulous. Never a messy sail falling into the cockpit or on deck or into the drink. Perfect sail flake every time with very little assistance. It doesn't make the sail come down by itself but I use a downhaul for that which I recently installed. My sail is roachier than sotck so I have to slack the topping lift/Dutchman when the sail is hoisted 90%. Not a problem since I ran the topping lift line aft to the cockpit. I retension it when I drop the sail. No lazy jacks to catch on the spreaders either. It is expensive, however, mostly labor since the system needs to be fitted to the mainsail by a sail loft. To boot, it requires a custom sail cover or altering the existing one so that it has openings on the side for the Dutchman lines. They can close via zippers or metal twist locks which is what I have. It has another advantage when reefing. The sail flakes on the boom vs. hanging down like a rag. Most of the time, I don't tie off the reefed sail. I do when I know I'll be sailing with the reef for a while. Still not necessary but I'm a bit of a perfectionist.

You can view a nice demo here: http://mvbinfo.com/dp_03_SF_brochure.html

Leon

[pokerrick1]

Enter, Mike's boom rails. A set of short, four 9" long lifeline posts screwed to boom at 1/3 and 2/3 back on the boom, wire streched from tip of boom to end, angled about 45 degrees outboard. The lazy jacks attach to tip of lifeline posts, which spreads the lazyjacks apart, now the sail will fall down and not hangup. This was developed for one of my customers who decided he was to old to get up on deck ( it wasn't you Rick, he was real old).

Man do these things work great - - - sail falls right on top of the boom and easy to cover. As I recall, a new boom with Mike's boom rails and lazy jacks used to cost about $300 and well worth it. I still went up on deck - - - but it was back at the dock just to straighten and smooth out the sail and cover it. I have no idea if Mike or Jeff still makes these?? Mike?
If you can't afford the roller furler, I highly recommend Mike's lazy jack system with boom rails.

Rick

[Québec 1]

Totally true about Doyle stackpac, sail is too small to lower on its on, not enough weight to fall in a tight bundle while confined inside the lazyjacks. If you have to go up on deck to fold, why bother. The extra time req'd to stuff the mainsail into the "stack" added to the extra time to put on the sailcover, regular sailcover wil fit with less effort not having to deal with the lines of the stack pac. Anyone else's type of sail handle help seems to suffer same problem.
Enter, Mike's boom rails. A set of short, four 9" long lifeline posts screwed to boom at 1/3 and 2/3 back on the boom, wire streched from tip of boom to end, angled about 45 degrees outboard. The lazy jacks attach to tip of lifeline posts, which spreads the lazyjacks apart, now the sail will fall down and not hangup. This was developed for one of my customers who decided he was to old to get up on deck ( it wasn't you Rick, he was real old). I wish that was enough, almost enough. You know! a frog is a bird almost, when he sit he stand almost, when he jump he fly almost, a frog is a bird almost. Biggest problem with boomrails is the extra time spent covering the sail, although that is done at the dock. You could use the roller furling boom with sail cover builtin but it's too costly, even I admit that.
Mike Inmon

Did you get my pm?

[The Mutt]

Man do these things work great - - - sail falls right on top of the boom and easy to cover. As I recall, a new boom with Mike's boom rails and lazy jacks used to cost about $300 and well worth it. I still went up on deck - - - but it was back at the dock just to straighten and smooth out the sail and cover it. I have no idea if Mike or Jeff still makes these?? Mike?
If you can't afford the roller furler, I highly recommend Mike's lazy jack system with boom rails.

Rick

Have sailbag material connected from the outer most point of the 9" sticks back to the boom, pivot the 9" sticks up after the sail is lowered, have a YKK zip inside the lazy jack line when the 9" sticks are in the up position close the zip ... would that work as a cover?

Glenn

[pokerrick1]

How would one "pivot" the 9" posts up?? They are bolted to the boom? Mike will have to answer your questions. I have no mechanical knowledge nor ability.

My regular sail cover works with this arrangement - - - except one fastener cannot be fastened on the bottom. I agree a zipper would be better - - - but I had no expense for a new cover and just used the one I had.

Rick

[The Mutt]

How would one "pivot" the 9" posts up?? They are bolted to the boom? Mike will have to answer your questions. I have no mechanical knowledge nor ability.
Rick

There are hinged bases that will do the job .. .no problem.

Glenn

[PatrickS]

I made my own sail caddy based on the commercial product http://www.sailcaddy.com/ and love it.

With a downhaul, sail slugs, and SailKote in the track, I just turn into the wind, release the mainsheet, pull the downhaul, and in seconds my main is down. Never a need to leave the cockpit and seldom any need to even touch the mainsail when dropping it down into the caddy.

I've yet to need to tie off the mainsail until stowing it completely (it has more than enough lateral support to just stay put in the caddie under its own weight) and when later stowing the mainsail, I flake it nicely and put the sailcover on.

The side bars fold flush to the boom when not needed and can be quickly flipped up/down from the cockpit.

Anyway, just thought I'd toss that option out there...

Cheers,

Patrick

[MadMacX]

Hey Patrick, do you have some pics of your sail caddy? I'd like to see what you did.

Pat

[The Mutt]

Ditto about the pics, good to see how you made yours.

Glenn