As I read back through all the modifications and look at winter mods, I have a full complement of thngs I want to do the fiberglass throught the boat, but has anyone done any Major changes to sail plan and written about the successs? for example mast moving or replacement, Increasing mainsail area.., conversion to cutter rig, additional forestay installation, lengthening the boom, increasing mast height, bowsprits, custom centerboards....etc... especially with side by side on the water conmparisons to other macs after mods...
I am planning on putting on a second storm forestay, for a storm jib.. but what have others found about reinforcing the hull in this area, I am thinking immediately aft of the hatch.
I really dont worry about what that will do to PHRF ratings. etc. ( I am not a club member or racer) I would just like to read about other peoples success..... That transom mod on the ..... maru kind of thing. and I would like to sail a little faster. in light winds and good weather... ..
So all things being given, in light winds....it seems, that to go faster, there are really only 2 things that we can do, increase thrust ( from the sails) and pointing ability. (limiting slip), (these two seem to be the holy grail of mac sailors). Pointing ability is tightly related to that waterplane, centerboard, and position limits.
So... who has that adjustable length centerboard idea for a 26 X, Since the pull cable is some distance from the end of board, seems that it could pull a retractable end piece back into the main centerboard prior to full retraction.
Or maybe a trailing web between the aft edge of the centerboard and the centerboard well.....
Any other ideas people have lurking around??
Thanks in advance.
Darren
Sail mods, success stories...???
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waternwaves
- Admiral
- Posts: 1499
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:18 pm
- Location: X less in North Puget Sound -have to sail other boats for a while
-
Frank C
Darren,
I doubt you'll find anyone here who has, A) taken THAT MUCH time to improve the boat, or B) taken any effort to test against another boat. That seems a function of the community that's attracted to the vessel, who seem more interested in using the boat as an RV, not a Porsche. Heck, I've only seen one report of sailing comparison between M and X, let alone a comparison involving altered rigs or hulls.
Nonetheless, here's some performance info for you. The factory is reportedly working on a removable bowsprit to mount the assym. A few owners have added full length battens to improve performance of the mainsail, but I've seen no real reports of effectiveness - it's got to help, right? The basic hull might support a larger rig, but before you enlarge the mainsail, consider that it's already large enough that 18 kn. winds overpower the boat. The single-handers biggest handful in higher winds is for reefing the current main. Rarely do owners feel that 150 sq.ft. is too small, but its quality can surely be improved. FWIW, Newell, Murv and Tom Root (see membership list) are very interested in performance under sail, using the basic the factory package.
The factory delivered boat has virtually no sail controls. Rather than enlarging the rig, taller mast and altered chainplates, consider enhancing the basic platform with adjustable backstay, rigid vang, traveler, outhaul and quality sails. IMO, adding good performance monitors (GPS and wind indicator) are essential to providing the feedback you'll need to judge your use of the rig and controls.
The Mac's significant performance deterrents seem to be the hull shape (hard to improve), the centerboard trunk where a slot gasket may help, and the abrupt transom that might respond to fairing or tabs. Dual rudders are an advantage, clearly subject to improvement.
One owner of a Mac classic has added a removable baby-stay for storm jib (though certainly not related to speed). It's been discussed that a storm-stay could also serve for lifting the mast. I'd look to the foredeck padeye as substantial, perhaps with a broader backing plate.
Having done all above, plus more, you'll probably have the equivalent of a turbocharged Winnebago, with rims and slicks . . . still no J-boat. For my money, I'd rather operate within the general boundaries of the factory design, and focus on improving my execution under sail . . . and then motor back at 15 knots, which will still get me home before that J-boat. Just one opinion
I doubt you'll find anyone here who has, A) taken THAT MUCH time to improve the boat, or B) taken any effort to test against another boat. That seems a function of the community that's attracted to the vessel, who seem more interested in using the boat as an RV, not a Porsche. Heck, I've only seen one report of sailing comparison between M and X, let alone a comparison involving altered rigs or hulls.
Nonetheless, here's some performance info for you. The factory is reportedly working on a removable bowsprit to mount the assym. A few owners have added full length battens to improve performance of the mainsail, but I've seen no real reports of effectiveness - it's got to help, right? The basic hull might support a larger rig, but before you enlarge the mainsail, consider that it's already large enough that 18 kn. winds overpower the boat. The single-handers biggest handful in higher winds is for reefing the current main. Rarely do owners feel that 150 sq.ft. is too small, but its quality can surely be improved. FWIW, Newell, Murv and Tom Root (see membership list) are very interested in performance under sail, using the basic the factory package.
The factory delivered boat has virtually no sail controls. Rather than enlarging the rig, taller mast and altered chainplates, consider enhancing the basic platform with adjustable backstay, rigid vang, traveler, outhaul and quality sails. IMO, adding good performance monitors (GPS and wind indicator) are essential to providing the feedback you'll need to judge your use of the rig and controls.
The Mac's significant performance deterrents seem to be the hull shape (hard to improve), the centerboard trunk where a slot gasket may help, and the abrupt transom that might respond to fairing or tabs. Dual rudders are an advantage, clearly subject to improvement.
One owner of a Mac classic has added a removable baby-stay for storm jib (though certainly not related to speed). It's been discussed that a storm-stay could also serve for lifting the mast. I'd look to the foredeck padeye as substantial, perhaps with a broader backing plate.
Having done all above, plus more, you'll probably have the equivalent of a turbocharged Winnebago, with rims and slicks . . . still no J-boat. For my money, I'd rather operate within the general boundaries of the factory design, and focus on improving my execution under sail . . . and then motor back at 15 knots, which will still get me home before that J-boat. Just one opinion
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TampaMac
- Engineer
- Posts: 142
- Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 9:03 am
- Location: Port Richey FL 2002-26X Merc 60 4stroke
My inherent lack of common sense resulted in my X being demasted.
I am putting a "26M" rig on my boat as a replacement.
At present the dealer has my $1200 depo and is waiting for his next order of boats to get the parts to do my boat.
I am hoping that the M rig will allow a bit more pointing and a bit more speed. I also bought and have in my possession a brand new full battened mainsail that I will be putting on the rig.
Who knows? I would be pretty happy to get 5-10 degrees better pointing and another mph here and there.
I don't think this project will be done for 2 or 3 months though.
I am putting a "26M" rig on my boat as a replacement.
At present the dealer has my $1200 depo and is waiting for his next order of boats to get the parts to do my boat.
I am hoping that the M rig will allow a bit more pointing and a bit more speed. I also bought and have in my possession a brand new full battened mainsail that I will be putting on the rig.
Who knows? I would be pretty happy to get 5-10 degrees better pointing and another mph here and there.
I don't think this project will be done for 2 or 3 months though.
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waternwaves
- Admiral
- Posts: 1499
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:18 pm
- Location: X less in North Puget Sound -have to sail other boats for a while
Frank,
'
I guess I have to confess here.... I probably already have a little more electronics and gear on mine than most, duality was important to me, Dual speedo-depth finders, dual GPS, Dual VHF, radar, dual wind indicators, Used to carry the SSB, dual Inclinometer, binacle and companion way compasses , boom vang, boom kicker, adjustable back stay, dual reefs, outhauls etc.... mostly because where I sail is hard on equipment. and I think I'll keep the dula rudder penalty, it saved my butt when the steering broke several weeks ago....
and all the gear should make it easy to determine differences....
and since I sail single handed, a second smaller cutter style jib should be roller reefed, (as soon as I get tthat reinforcement thought out really really well on deck..(But this still makes it difficult to raise the storm jib, So I have to decide whether the second forestay is going to serve double duty). but adding more headsail alone really just gives me a heavier weather helm (EDIT HERE...brain freeze ..lee helm, thanks to all who caught that..!!!)unless I have some way to increase main to balance it....the simplest and probably most expensive way is to change the main boom length or mast height, or both, either which means custom sails from here on out..,
or maybe some simpler ways that might fit with existing rigging
, the second way that keeps coming to mind is what the kite flyers and some really creative hobie sailors have done, and that is they have thought out of the box, and added tube channels to the main to funnel the wind accross two sets of surfaces, like a box kite.., where this really helps is beating, .........reaching and running seem not to inflate the channels , and the only penalty then is the additional weight aloft.
(And yes, it is kind of like a minivan.... but maybe I am pushing to something more like a taurus wagon..... with an SHO engine.... doesnt everyone need the family station wagon to go 130 mph.....?)
At the speeds we are talking about. in low wind conditions.. <15 kts, a and a hull speed of less than 7 kts, a 25 % increase in quickly deployed and quicky doused sail area should result in another knot, and would give many of the mac bashers just one more reason to complain about us....
All in all, cheapest improvement in sailing speed only.... seems to be the addition of a second forestay, and a small staysail or second jib..
and for the single hander....3 sails, I guess I better go with the roller furling... and wrap that storm sail on it when the SCA's go up.
But like tampa, its that upwind performance that is my goal.... and I am sure the rotating mast will help with that.
but maybe I can figure out an inflatable bladder to smooth up the centerboard well... or possibly a sliding cover that fits in a track, deployed from beneath the front dinette seat, or something that lives in the centerbard well and is pulled into place with the dropping of the centerboard, Would be nice if it closed the well when motoring or sailing.
Idea is coming is coming is coming is here...!@@@##$@Q
ARRRGGGHHHH
Back to the forestay reinforcement...lol
It seems quite busy sailing single handed with 2 sails around here, let alone three, but small sails are easier to handle anyway.
'
I guess I have to confess here.... I probably already have a little more electronics and gear on mine than most, duality was important to me, Dual speedo-depth finders, dual GPS, Dual VHF, radar, dual wind indicators, Used to carry the SSB, dual Inclinometer, binacle and companion way compasses , boom vang, boom kicker, adjustable back stay, dual reefs, outhauls etc.... mostly because where I sail is hard on equipment. and I think I'll keep the dula rudder penalty, it saved my butt when the steering broke several weeks ago....
and all the gear should make it easy to determine differences....
and since I sail single handed, a second smaller cutter style jib should be roller reefed, (as soon as I get tthat reinforcement thought out really really well on deck..(But this still makes it difficult to raise the storm jib, So I have to decide whether the second forestay is going to serve double duty). but adding more headsail alone really just gives me a heavier weather helm (EDIT HERE...brain freeze ..lee helm, thanks to all who caught that..!!!)unless I have some way to increase main to balance it....the simplest and probably most expensive way is to change the main boom length or mast height, or both, either which means custom sails from here on out..,
or maybe some simpler ways that might fit with existing rigging
, the second way that keeps coming to mind is what the kite flyers and some really creative hobie sailors have done, and that is they have thought out of the box, and added tube channels to the main to funnel the wind accross two sets of surfaces, like a box kite.., where this really helps is beating, .........reaching and running seem not to inflate the channels , and the only penalty then is the additional weight aloft.
(And yes, it is kind of like a minivan.... but maybe I am pushing to something more like a taurus wagon..... with an SHO engine.... doesnt everyone need the family station wagon to go 130 mph.....?)
At the speeds we are talking about. in low wind conditions.. <15 kts, a and a hull speed of less than 7 kts, a 25 % increase in quickly deployed and quicky doused sail area should result in another knot, and would give many of the mac bashers just one more reason to complain about us....
All in all, cheapest improvement in sailing speed only.... seems to be the addition of a second forestay, and a small staysail or second jib..
and for the single hander....3 sails, I guess I better go with the roller furling... and wrap that storm sail on it when the SCA's go up.
But like tampa, its that upwind performance that is my goal.... and I am sure the rotating mast will help with that.
but maybe I can figure out an inflatable bladder to smooth up the centerboard well... or possibly a sliding cover that fits in a track, deployed from beneath the front dinette seat, or something that lives in the centerbard well and is pulled into place with the dropping of the centerboard, Would be nice if it closed the well when motoring or sailing.
Idea is coming is coming is coming is here...!@@@##$@Q
ARRRGGGHHHH
Back to the forestay reinforcement...lol
It seems quite busy sailing single handed with 2 sails around here, let alone three, but small sails are easier to handle anyway.
Last edited by waternwaves on Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Frank C
Oops - you misunderstood. I wouldn't change to one rudder. Rather, I'd look to improve the linkage and foils.waternwaves wrote: . . . and I think I'll keep the dula rudder penalty, it saved my butt when the steering broke several weeks ago....
Guess I misunderstood about the staysail. You're thinking of flying both headsails to improve beating? How's the single-hander going to tack the foresail, by furling? ... certainly not quickly?. . . . . . So I have to decide whether the second forestay is going to serve double duty)
Oops again - check that logic. The current rig's weather helm is due to it's mainsail being oversized for the boat's weight in heavier winds - I'd say that the dual headsails should contribute lee helm.. . . . . . but adding more headsail alone really just gives me a heavier weather helm unless I have some way to increase main to balance it....
Never saw that idea before, but it does seem one way to add mainsail power without enlarging the rig. There's sure no cheap way to try out that sail, eh?. . . the second way that keeps coming to mind is what the kite flyers and some really creative hobie sailors have done, and that is they have thought out of the box, and added tube channels to the main to funnel the wind accross two sets of surfaces, like a box kite.., where this really helps is beating, ...
I really doubt this since the staysail must be so small, but look forward to hearing your results. But if you're committed, the smaller sail could be effective without RF. Just hank it on with a downhaul, yank it onto deck in a pile when winds kick up. Tacking is still the problem here - Aren't twin foresails mostly used on blue water when tacks are held for hours on end?. . . At the speeds we are talking about. in low wind conditions.. <15 kts, a and a hull speed of less than 7 kts, a 25 % increase in quickly deployed and quicky doused sail area should result in another knot . . .
. . . All in all, cheapest improvement in sailing speed only.... seems to be the addition of a second forestay, and a small staysail or second jib...
Now here's an idea I can subscribe to . . . I've wondered about this for a long time. Why not just seal-off the compression post and pump low-pressure air into the CB trunk? ... just enough to limit the amount of water that can intrude. You'd need to somehow seal the CB line, or abandon it in favor of an axle & drum inside the trunk that can wind-up the board, a la furling drum. Fun to speculate!. . . but maybe I can figure out an inflatable bladder to smooth up the centerboard well... or possibly a sliding cover that fits in a track, deployed from beneath the front dinette seat
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waternwaves
- Admiral
- Posts: 1499
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:18 pm
- Location: X less in North Puget Sound -have to sail other boats for a while
solvent fumes and late hours... thats right, the other left
Frank,
Yep, as many have noted in earlier posts, several places in the steering could stand further reinforcement, and I am working diligently on that aspect.
And as far as the second forestay, the original thought was so that I could use a storm jib on it, without having to zip a storm jib over the rollerfurled gennie, but... I am still debating abou this one.... The original thought was that when not in use, the stay would be back clipped to mast and cabin top, and only used for storm config. But I am kind of leaning to a mulituse stay which would also hold a 70 to 80 % jib when I am running the second set of main reefs. at that point the bimini is probably a lot of my boat motive power....lol.... Since I did not by the side pieces and back for my enclosure yet, I cant say what it is like with every thing zipped down and connector opened for boom control, but I have noted the boat moves fairly quickly under bimini alone.. But it seems like such a waste of a fore stay, when another 80 ft + of jib could go up there. I am thinking another furled jib is going to be a lot easier to handle than a staysail.... and I already learned the penalty of not backwinding my jibs far enough, I have a radar sitting out front now..Mylar is not cheap.
and the whole purpose was to go faster in light winds... (summer in puget sound...)
and yes, backwinding is a pain, but seems that the two lines or drives could be rigged tohaul both in almost simultaneously
and oops..... caught me there.... must have been typing with my other right hand..... yes, excess main pressure will give a more weather helm, given jib flying normally close hauled on a beat. Dont know what I was thinking when I typed that..... brain fog I guess... Or maybe I was thinking of that imaginary jib that translates thrust aft behind the mast, and luffs after the main does. ... lol. or maybe the cleaning solvents are getting to me.......
AS as far as the box sails......since the sail can be smaller for equivalent thrust .. may not be as hard for me to get something like that sewn up, (Maybe something used on ebay to start) perhaps if I try it with only a portion of the sail with tubes it might be a good start. maybe I can find a package deal on some strain gauges to measure tension on the slugs.
with equivalent wind speeds and angles..but so much time is spent beating, I think that it might have some promise. course it would make the mac look like a WWI biplane and be source of endless derisive comments...... Hmmm for that reason alone being successful with that patentable idea would be fun... (remember folks you heard it here first.....lol)
seems like every beat is hours with little wind and puget sound currents...
So, for heavy weather I guess I am tallking myself out of a regular staysail, back to a storm sail, and a storm jib to balance it..one zip over jib, and a tiny little main or top clipped staysail set to the mastboom intersection, raised on two or 3 heavy duty slugs up the main sail track and the clew to the closest car (aft) track. (since the storm jib is on the front cars Does anyone else sail with anything like this in SCA's?
and the reason I was referring to the less than 7 kt speed was that age old hull speed boundary.
Sealing off the CB trunk.. that has always seemed like a good idea, but i want to keep the weight there, just not the drag, and I seem to have enought trouble sealing things up water tight, I dont know if I would try to get things air tight.
I like your idea tho., but an air tight shaft seal that could take that kind of side load.... gotta be spendy
I actually tried to look at it a different way at first, using compressed air in the CB to drive out the water and use displacement to raise it back up.., but you could never have a centerboard heavier than an equivalent volume of water...... so that idea tanked...., and with all the creepy crunchies that want to live on the bottom of boats I am continually stymied on anything mechanically gated to seal the well, That is why I keep coming back to the idea of a track to slide something along. or diving overboard to insert a plug, since it seems a boyant plug would force itself in. and if it ever came out with the engine running, you could guarantee a prop rebuild would be necessary. The only other way that looks bullet proof is to have a reverse centerboard drop into the well from the top of the CB trunk, which would require raising the trunk into the table/cabin space 9 inches.
has anyone looked at the navy designs, maybe for centerboards with elevators/ flaps similiar to what has been used to control hydrofoils? maybe a a centerboard with more lift in the weather direction would help our pointing abilities.....
Yep, as many have noted in earlier posts, several places in the steering could stand further reinforcement, and I am working diligently on that aspect.
And as far as the second forestay, the original thought was so that I could use a storm jib on it, without having to zip a storm jib over the rollerfurled gennie, but... I am still debating abou this one.... The original thought was that when not in use, the stay would be back clipped to mast and cabin top, and only used for storm config. But I am kind of leaning to a mulituse stay which would also hold a 70 to 80 % jib when I am running the second set of main reefs. at that point the bimini is probably a lot of my boat motive power....lol.... Since I did not by the side pieces and back for my enclosure yet, I cant say what it is like with every thing zipped down and connector opened for boom control, but I have noted the boat moves fairly quickly under bimini alone.. But it seems like such a waste of a fore stay, when another 80 ft + of jib could go up there. I am thinking another furled jib is going to be a lot easier to handle than a staysail.... and I already learned the penalty of not backwinding my jibs far enough, I have a radar sitting out front now..Mylar is not cheap.
and the whole purpose was to go faster in light winds... (summer in puget sound...)
and yes, backwinding is a pain, but seems that the two lines or drives could be rigged tohaul both in almost simultaneously
and oops..... caught me there.... must have been typing with my other right hand..... yes, excess main pressure will give a more weather helm, given jib flying normally close hauled on a beat. Dont know what I was thinking when I typed that..... brain fog I guess... Or maybe I was thinking of that imaginary jib that translates thrust aft behind the mast, and luffs after the main does. ... lol. or maybe the cleaning solvents are getting to me.......
AS as far as the box sails......since the sail can be smaller for equivalent thrust .. may not be as hard for me to get something like that sewn up, (Maybe something used on ebay to start) perhaps if I try it with only a portion of the sail with tubes it might be a good start. maybe I can find a package deal on some strain gauges to measure tension on the slugs.
with equivalent wind speeds and angles..but so much time is spent beating, I think that it might have some promise. course it would make the mac look like a WWI biplane and be source of endless derisive comments...... Hmmm for that reason alone being successful with that patentable idea would be fun... (remember folks you heard it here first.....lol)
seems like every beat is hours with little wind and puget sound currents...
So, for heavy weather I guess I am tallking myself out of a regular staysail, back to a storm sail, and a storm jib to balance it..one zip over jib, and a tiny little main or top clipped staysail set to the mastboom intersection, raised on two or 3 heavy duty slugs up the main sail track and the clew to the closest car (aft) track. (since the storm jib is on the front cars Does anyone else sail with anything like this in SCA's?
and the reason I was referring to the less than 7 kt speed was that age old hull speed boundary.
Sealing off the CB trunk.. that has always seemed like a good idea, but i want to keep the weight there, just not the drag, and I seem to have enought trouble sealing things up water tight, I dont know if I would try to get things air tight.
I like your idea tho., but an air tight shaft seal that could take that kind of side load.... gotta be spendy
I actually tried to look at it a different way at first, using compressed air in the CB to drive out the water and use displacement to raise it back up.., but you could never have a centerboard heavier than an equivalent volume of water...... so that idea tanked...., and with all the creepy crunchies that want to live on the bottom of boats I am continually stymied on anything mechanically gated to seal the well, That is why I keep coming back to the idea of a track to slide something along. or diving overboard to insert a plug, since it seems a boyant plug would force itself in. and if it ever came out with the engine running, you could guarantee a prop rebuild would be necessary. The only other way that looks bullet proof is to have a reverse centerboard drop into the well from the top of the CB trunk, which would require raising the trunk into the table/cabin space 9 inches.
has anyone looked at the navy designs, maybe for centerboards with elevators/ flaps similiar to what has been used to control hydrofoils? maybe a a centerboard with more lift in the weather direction would help our pointing abilities.....
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waternwaves
- Admiral
- Posts: 1499
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:18 pm
- Location: X less in North Puget Sound -have to sail other boats for a while
emergency sails, after dismasting....
Has anyone tried one of these on on high freeboard boat like a mac.???
http://www.kiteship.com/id2.html. seems one of these in an emergency could bring the boat home.. or at least a lot closer...flown only from a winch.. though a feed at a remaining about at the mast step.
70 sq meters of sail..... that might even drain a flooded mac.....tie it to the pulpit and lift the flooded boat and drain it.......lol
http://www.kiteship.com/id2.html. seems one of these in an emergency could bring the boat home.. or at least a lot closer...flown only from a winch.. though a feed at a remaining about at the mast step.
70 sq meters of sail..... that might even drain a flooded mac.....tie it to the pulpit and lift the flooded boat and drain it.......lol
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Sloop John B
- Captain
- Posts: 871
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 2:45 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Florida 'Big Bend'. 02x Yamaha T50
Gees, Water Waves
Sail the boat or get another boat. You have too much b.s. for the rudimentary guy that visits this site. No one is going to go along with your crap modifications. They're costly and absolutely ding bat.
If youre offended, then join the design team in California and let them know of your prate and appetite for a better vessel.
I think you're too sophisticated to have purchased a MacGregor. Youre like Bert Reynolds trying to soup up a Chevrolet.
I mean, Gees, give us a break!
Sail the boat or get another boat. You have too much b.s. for the rudimentary guy that visits this site. No one is going to go along with your crap modifications. They're costly and absolutely ding bat.
If youre offended, then join the design team in California and let them know of your prate and appetite for a better vessel.
I think you're too sophisticated to have purchased a MacGregor. Youre like Bert Reynolds trying to soup up a Chevrolet.
I mean, Gees, give us a break!
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waternwaves
- Admiral
- Posts: 1499
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:18 pm
- Location: X less in North Puget Sound -have to sail other boats for a while
Sorry to offend you..... ideas should not be so threatening
John, sorry to offend your sensibilities.... based on the lateness of th hour, I wonder if ethanol was the editorial review board with your last commentary.
I do sail my macregor boat,
Harder than most, and in rougher weather. and for longer periods of time. my last trip was off the west coast of Vancouver island in pacific storms, for almost 3 weeks, and only spent half of one night on a dock.
I also currently own a power boat. and I kayak and fly
If you think my comments are not based on facts and personal experiences, thats fine with me. Everyone has an opinion.
The fact that some of us here continually improve and modify our systems and equipment on our boats should not be a threat to you. I am fixing a lot of gear because it broke or had limited performance on my last extended cruise. That is a good time to correct and upgrade.
I have never been offended by anything I have seen on this site, and since I have a thick hide, I doubt your last comments will offend me much, due to the lateness of the hour(earliness of the day).
Btw, I get email from others on this site, asking requests of photo mods and changes done.. Seems others have interests,
Also,
generic comments of yours such as "You have too much b.s. for the rudimentary guy that visits this site" is inaccurate and offensive to the many talented people who contribute to this site. Many are highly skilled, very good designers and craftsmen as well as newly interested folks who apply good practices to what they are trying to develop.
And as far as your comment "your crap modifications" since you have not seen any, why do you feel a compelling need to belittle others craftsmanship when you have not even identified even one modification, nor how it is substandard, nor have you seen one. Seems a bit premature to me. or do you just feel that eveything that the designers did at macgregor could never be improved upon in any conditions or in any type of sailing? And your comment "no one is going to go along" appears to be erroneaous, also based on the response received,.
And as far as the "They're costly and absolutely ding bat" of any of my modications, I find that good engineering is low cost. I have read of many, many ideas on here which cost far more than the suggestions I have come up with, eveything from 140 hp motors to 6ft (and yet both of these have been done,) hull extensions, I have suggested nothing so extravagent, merely commented on the desireability of certain features when others have asked or outlined their ideas and intentions. The fact that you wish to attribute so many ideas to me is flaterring, but again technically inaccurate.
I am also aware that many many people occasionaly read the forum, which is for the exchange of ideas, as well as the discussion of the joys of any invididuals last trip. But I would not use so broad a brush to ever say that the average reader here is "rudimentary guy" as you call them. I have found that the Mac appeals to people who like to modify and change things. That is one of the appeals of motorsailing , I feel, more systems than a regular powerboater has to contend with.
I am not particularly "sophisticated" 25 years as an engineer and starting several businesses did not afford me that luxury, to play on the water as much as I would like, while other hobbies were also done. I happen to be at a point in my life now where I have more of the time, skills, and abilities to develop these mods.
Since I dont watch television and see few movies, I missed your " burt reynolds comment",
so I cannot answer that claim, since I can only guess at its derogatory implications. and I note, thre is a huge aftermarket for equipment and ideas to modify chevrolets.. Much of it discussed in forums such as this.
Furthermore, I liberally identify any satirical, humorous, or wild goose ideas with "lol, hehehehe, sic, not, etc" to clearly identify actual goals from pie in the sky.
ALl in all, I have no real idea from your inarticulate and non referenced complaint as to which particular writings, thoughts, designs ideas or discussions you found most offensive, and rather than put words in your mouth, feel free to send me a post here with those you find most impossible or offensive to your staid and rigid world view of what a discussion forum or a macgregor motorsailor should contain.
and for all others. I apologize for even addressing this issue here, but if someone thinks an idea or development is bad, please have the wherewithal to specifically identify what writings you find inaccurate, wrong, morally incompatible with the mac26x, too expensive,
In the future, It might just be easier if you didn't read my postings. I'll get back to the design work and mods....
Another recomendation..... if you want to get offensive or mad at someone who might be working on more or less than you, go pick on a terrorist.....there are plentyof forums to vent spleen at individuals such as that.. and maybe if enough people feel something , a critical mass may be reached,
Thanks for the opportunity to clarify
I do sail my macregor boat,
Harder than most, and in rougher weather. and for longer periods of time. my last trip was off the west coast of Vancouver island in pacific storms, for almost 3 weeks, and only spent half of one night on a dock.
I also currently own a power boat. and I kayak and fly
If you think my comments are not based on facts and personal experiences, thats fine with me. Everyone has an opinion.
The fact that some of us here continually improve and modify our systems and equipment on our boats should not be a threat to you. I am fixing a lot of gear because it broke or had limited performance on my last extended cruise. That is a good time to correct and upgrade.
I have never been offended by anything I have seen on this site, and since I have a thick hide, I doubt your last comments will offend me much, due to the lateness of the hour(earliness of the day).
Btw, I get email from others on this site, asking requests of photo mods and changes done.. Seems others have interests,
Also,
generic comments of yours such as "You have too much b.s. for the rudimentary guy that visits this site" is inaccurate and offensive to the many talented people who contribute to this site. Many are highly skilled, very good designers and craftsmen as well as newly interested folks who apply good practices to what they are trying to develop.
And as far as your comment "your crap modifications" since you have not seen any, why do you feel a compelling need to belittle others craftsmanship when you have not even identified even one modification, nor how it is substandard, nor have you seen one. Seems a bit premature to me. or do you just feel that eveything that the designers did at macgregor could never be improved upon in any conditions or in any type of sailing? And your comment "no one is going to go along" appears to be erroneaous, also based on the response received,.
And as far as the "They're costly and absolutely ding bat" of any of my modications, I find that good engineering is low cost. I have read of many, many ideas on here which cost far more than the suggestions I have come up with, eveything from 140 hp motors to 6ft (and yet both of these have been done,) hull extensions, I have suggested nothing so extravagent, merely commented on the desireability of certain features when others have asked or outlined their ideas and intentions. The fact that you wish to attribute so many ideas to me is flaterring, but again technically inaccurate.
I am also aware that many many people occasionaly read the forum, which is for the exchange of ideas, as well as the discussion of the joys of any invididuals last trip. But I would not use so broad a brush to ever say that the average reader here is "rudimentary guy" as you call them. I have found that the Mac appeals to people who like to modify and change things. That is one of the appeals of motorsailing , I feel, more systems than a regular powerboater has to contend with.
I am not particularly "sophisticated" 25 years as an engineer and starting several businesses did not afford me that luxury, to play on the water as much as I would like, while other hobbies were also done. I happen to be at a point in my life now where I have more of the time, skills, and abilities to develop these mods.
Since I dont watch television and see few movies, I missed your " burt reynolds comment",
so I cannot answer that claim, since I can only guess at its derogatory implications. and I note, thre is a huge aftermarket for equipment and ideas to modify chevrolets.. Much of it discussed in forums such as this.
Furthermore, I liberally identify any satirical, humorous, or wild goose ideas with "lol, hehehehe, sic, not, etc" to clearly identify actual goals from pie in the sky.
ALl in all, I have no real idea from your inarticulate and non referenced complaint as to which particular writings, thoughts, designs ideas or discussions you found most offensive, and rather than put words in your mouth, feel free to send me a post here with those you find most impossible or offensive to your staid and rigid world view of what a discussion forum or a macgregor motorsailor should contain.
and for all others. I apologize for even addressing this issue here, but if someone thinks an idea or development is bad, please have the wherewithal to specifically identify what writings you find inaccurate, wrong, morally incompatible with the mac26x, too expensive,
In the future, It might just be easier if you didn't read my postings. I'll get back to the design work and mods....
Another recomendation..... if you want to get offensive or mad at someone who might be working on more or less than you, go pick on a terrorist.....there are plentyof forums to vent spleen at individuals such as that.. and maybe if enough people feel something , a critical mass may be reached,
Thanks for the opportunity to clarify
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26XSunsailrs
- Just Enlisted
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:54 am
Enjoying the theory
I'm no professional sailor, but I was enjoying the theory and brainstorming on possible mods. Each crazy idea I read on this board makes me think of something I hadn't considered previously.
John I thought that was harsh and not in the spirit of this discussion board. If it irritates you, don't click on it!
Keep the wild ideas coming, see everyone on the water,
-Steve '99 26X Together
John I thought that was harsh and not in the spirit of this discussion board. If it irritates you, don't click on it!
Keep the wild ideas coming, see everyone on the water,
-Steve '99 26X Together
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Mark Prouty
- Admiral
- Posts: 1723
- Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2004 8:52 am
- Location: Madison, WI Former MacGregor 26X Owner
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Richard O'Brien
- Captain
- Posts: 653
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 8:20 am
- Location: Lakewood, CO. Mercury 60hp bigfoot M0427B404
centerboard gasket
First Darren, i thorougly enjoy your wild contributions to possible improvements. Ski season has started here, and these posts and a few mods may be the only sailing fun I can look forward too. Now, i own an M and don't fully understand the drag from a centerboard, but it appears to be substantial. For more than 25 years I have used urethane, and other mold materials for castings. A high durometer urethane gasket could be made "in situ". Urethane likes to stick to polyester that's been roughened and brushed with MEK. Something like Smooth-On 780, an 80 durometer 2 part urethane available at some larger art supply houses. The vessel would have to be off the trailer, in a sling probably, to access the trunk from below. The centerboard itself would get a good non stick coating of carnubba wax and mold release. lowered partially. and skillfully sealed with mylar to prevent drips running down the board. the urethane would be hand pumped through an access hole. Or maybe Keelgard can just be convinced to make a gasket. Am i going to do this on My M? Not this year, but mine"s way simpler to execute so i might in 2005-
Sloop John B
- Captain
- Posts: 871
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 2:45 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Florida 'Big Bend'. 02x Yamaha T50
Water waves,
I have to apologize for the rant. What seems profound and humorous in the wee hours is many times recognized as embarrassing and juvenile in the cold light of morning.
My thoughts at the time were that many would be unwilling to move and or replace the mast/boom in experimenting with a different sail plane, or unwilling to install some kind of bomb bay door to reduce centerboard well drag.
However, in rereading your posts, its clear you understand the difficulty and possible failings.
Most of the boats that zoom by me are cutter rigged. You have thought out this modification carefully and Im interested in hearing the results.
Tampamac lost his mast and is in an ideal position to mount the rotating M mast. All eyes and ears are tuned for his future reports.
I also recognize that Rogers design is not computer perfect, but perhaps more driven by cost of production. Your thoughts, along with others, need not be concerned with costs that on an individual bases are rather minuscule.
I agree with your comments on my post and am impressed with your background. I hope not to have dampened your enthusiasm.
I have to apologize for the rant. What seems profound and humorous in the wee hours is many times recognized as embarrassing and juvenile in the cold light of morning.
My thoughts at the time were that many would be unwilling to move and or replace the mast/boom in experimenting with a different sail plane, or unwilling to install some kind of bomb bay door to reduce centerboard well drag.
However, in rereading your posts, its clear you understand the difficulty and possible failings.
Most of the boats that zoom by me are cutter rigged. You have thought out this modification carefully and Im interested in hearing the results.
Tampamac lost his mast and is in an ideal position to mount the rotating M mast. All eyes and ears are tuned for his future reports.
I also recognize that Rogers design is not computer perfect, but perhaps more driven by cost of production. Your thoughts, along with others, need not be concerned with costs that on an individual bases are rather minuscule.
I agree with your comments on my post and am impressed with your background. I hope not to have dampened your enthusiasm.