Could not make headway in 15 mph of wind, Am I not a sailor?

[Matt19020]

I went out yesterday with 15-20 mph nose dead into the wind and going against an incoming tide. I could not make any headway at all! I know the Mac does not point well but this was ridiculous! And yes my board was down but everytime I went to tack the current would push me back against any headway I may have made. I am guessing it was abut a 3 knt current (possibly 4). This was a river about 1/4 mile wide and could not do a long tack to get a better angle of attack. I did not lose any ground but sure did not gain any about six tacks later I decided to run downwind....
I am wondering if this has happened to others?
Am I trying to point to high?
Should I sell the boat and just buy a motorboat?
.....Still had a great day out on the water even though I covered 0 miles!!

[ALX357]

SInce a Mac will make about 5 or 7 knots max in an ideal wind, on its best point of sail, and considering going against a tide of possibly four, I am not surprised that you could not make much headway with tacks at less than a mile between. Each tack by necessity loses some momentum also, and you effectively don't get a perfect 90 degree turn from tack to tack, so there is even less headway made due to the frequent tacking. Being light, most Macs do a partial stall in tacking, more so if not handled, - wheel, sail, and sheets, - just perfectly each time. In a classic type of keelboat, it would be difficult to sail in a narrow channel against the tide and upwind anyway, and with the Mac compromise ( motorboat / sailboat ) it presents added difficulty. Just my take, although there probably wil be some owners who disagree.
Running the motor even at a slow speed to help in tacking and pointing, or just motoring, would be advised if you want to actually get somewhere in that situation.

[Don T]

Hello,
Of course, any time you have the wind and the current to beat, you cannot make head way unless your boat points very high with little slip. A friend of mine had 22 miles to go, directly into the wind, out in the Georgia Strait. It took him 19 hours tacking back and fourth and he only made it because the current had switched direction. No, it wasn't a Mac. It was a Freedom 30 which I had spent the better part of a week sailing with. He could point higher and was only a tad faster on a beam run. We were out there too in 25kts+ of wind. What little headway we made was being chewed up by the current and the waves bashing the bow and slowing us down. The freedom was heavy enough to push through the waves (6'+). We were tacking out about half way across and back hoping to get some help from the curved island downwind from us but each tack only netted 1/4 mile or less. Eventually I gave up and ran the motor so I could be close to the wind. Left the double reefed main up to stabilize the boat. What a fun ride although the admiral expressed her displeasure.

[Divecoz]

Lower 70 hp motor into water turn key push lever forward go as fast as you desire.... Pass all other sail boats while doing this maneuver...
Nose into a 15 to 20 mph wind, while pushing against a current of 4 knots with no real room to tack ....Asking a bit much of yourself and........ the boat aren't you? Even in the hands of a skilled sailor? Even on a full keel boat ?

[NiceAft]

Matt,

I'm surprised that this is the first time it has happened to you. Nat and I have faced the situation on numerous occasions. Same spot, same conditions, same results. After awhile I just give up, and come about, and run up river. It's the boat man. Don't take it personally.

This may read like I'm calm, cool, and collected when it happens. I'm not , I hate defeat, but I get over it quickly Let's start a club

Ray

[richandlori]

I think it's just a reality of the Mac and the conditions you had at the time. heck....that's why you have a 50Hp hanging on the back!

Forget this real sailor stuff. We have been cruising now for 9 months and sure we sail when the wind are right....but when they arn't....sha-zam...we fire up the engine and rumb-line it!

Rich
Currently Cruising the Sea of Cortez
Blog: http://www.sailblogs.com/member/svthirdday/

[Russ]

Lower 70 hp motor into water turn key push lever forward go as fast as you desire.... Pass all other sail boats while doing this maneuver...
Nose into a 15 to 20 mph wind, while pushing against a current of 4 knots with no real room to tack ....Asking a bit much of yourself and........ the boat aren't you? Even in the hands of a skilled sailor? Even on a full keel boat ?

+1

Fighting a 4 knot current is difficult in any sailboat.

--Russ

[puggsy]

We have a similar situation here on the Swan River...its called Blackwall Reach and I learned the hard way that the just does not have the capability of multiple tacks in a narrow seaway against a strong breeze...Our afternoon sea breezes can get as high as 25-30 knots and the Reach is the same south-west direction and acts like a funnel, seemingly increasing the speed...seems like 40 knots...
Was out with an inexperienced friend the first time with him on the wheel...tacking towards a rock wall...and when it came time for the tack, SEAHORSE would just NOT come around...its the fastest I have ever lowered the motor, cranked it up and motor turned JUST in time to prevent a nose to rock crash...
From then on I have sailed with motor down, and always motored the length of the Reach...
There are just too many $$$$ at stake to try and prove to others you are the wortld's best sail[er]
Another old mate, very experienced, also got us into trouble...being used to the very agile MB24's, he expected the same performance from the .... It did not happen.
But then the MB will not sleep 6 and have a separate head...

[Divecoz]

Lower 70 hp motor into water turn key push lever forward go as fast as you desire.... Pass all other sail boats while doing this maneuver...
Nose into a 15 to 20 mph wind, while pushing against a current of 4 knots with no real room to tack ....Asking a bit much of yourself and........ the boat aren't you? Even in the hands of a skilled sailor? Even on a full keel boat ?

+1

Fighting a 4 knot current is difficult in any sailboat.

--Russ

Yep I fought this same scenario no less than 4 or 5 times this last winter....under power from the start and dragging my 9.9 inflatable for 20 + miles
I saw NO ONE Heading into the teeth so as it where....Not under sail anyway. I might have liked to have had Matts 70 HP Suzu a few of those days.
and NO its Not ... the Mac!!! Its the conditions your up against. I had it a lot easier than Matt if I wanted to spend the time. I say that because I had no less than 4 miles and often 6 or 7 miles to maneuver in...But that would have made a 20+ mile trip into no less than 40 mile trip....No thanks....Just Lower the Motor , Turn the key, push lever forward pass ALL other sailboats in sight , while having that beer

[Sloop John B]

If you're in a river or well marked channel you can see what's happening to you. If you have somewhere you have to get to, you have to pay attention to which way the tide is going. Out in the middle I'm heeled over with a bubbling wake behind me, really smoking. Then I come up upon a buoy and realize if I was moving any slower over the ground, I would be going backwards.

[Pete]

I fought tide and headwind for 4 hours in a narrow river before I realized I had missed my turn to cut through to the ICW. That will make you question weather you should be piloting a sailboat.
Pete

[Don T]

Hello,
I was out in the San Juan channel by Friday Harbor once, wing on wing, lookin' guud. Same thing as Sloop, had an impressive wake behind me then I look down at the GPS and it says I'm only doing 3 knots. I realize on a second look, the heading is reciprocal of what my compass is showing.............oops. Theory of relativity revisited. Nice relaxing sail though, smooth & upright.

[Matt19020]

Well thanks everyone for letting me know I am not the the only one who has expierienced this. The worst part about it is that my time on the Mac has been limited this season due to weekend obligations. I was able to get done early from work and saw the flags blowing hard so I figured it was the perfct setup for a midweek sail..... this ended up with me going home and spending the rest of the day staining my deck instead of sailing into the sunset!
Ray, I have expierienced this situation once or twice before but NEVER to the degree that this was... Oh well I hope to be out for a few hours on Sat. if the weather holds out.

[Kelly Hanson East]

Matt - I know a lot of the Northeast has had heavy rains...that 3-4 kt current could easily have been 5-6kts...which is curtains for beating upstream....unless you're a salmon. Please dont lox this thread.

[NiceAft]

OK I know you were fishing around for just the right way to aleve Matt of any guilt, but that was bad. There's a fin in it for you if you don't post humor of that scale in this thread again.

Ray