Do I really need a Bilge Pump? If so what is best Location?

[richandlori]

I am in the process of trying to figure out if I need some type of bilge pump and if so, where do I put it on a 2004 26M? I understand that water can and probabally will accumulate in the bilge, but having not sailed the new boat too much and definitely not in any type of bad sea conditions, I don't quite know if I need an electric bilge pump or will a $20 manual pump from west marine do the trick? At west marine, I was kind of baffeled by the large selection (and price ranges) of bilge pumps from totally manual 320 gpm units to float switch activated units up to 1500 gpm.

I am hoping that some of you have had some experience in what works best and your comments will be much appreciated. I was thinking of going with a $20-320gpm unit along with a $25 fused switch from west marine.

Thanks

Rich

[craiglaforce]

A bilge pump has very little value on this boat. You will want to remove the water before it gets deep enough to pump. The lack of a central collection point makes pump installation for routine use problematic.
If the boat is holed, the pump will probably be too small to do anything significant to help.
Pumps can also create problems if not installed correctly, (possible water backfeeding into the boat throough the discharge).
Best I think is to concentrate on sealing the leaks to reduce mildew formation, and get a bucket, a big sponge, and a powerful wet vac that is small enough to fit in a seat locker. The wet vac can also have other uses like dry vac, and maybe raft inflation or pushing water ballast out of the tank at the dock for whatever reason.
I've thought it would be great to have the vaccuum installed like a central vaccuum with the hose routed down to the 2 bilges, and with some sort of automatic drain built into the reservoir, sort of like a little ping pong ball in a cage that would seal when it is under vaccuum and would let the water gravity drain out the head sink hose when the vaccuum is turned off. I have a dream! I just hated rummaging around and setting up the vaccuum and working up a good seat before heading out. But now that I have all the leaks sealed it's not a problem. Seal those leaks.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Interesting how the same questions come up over and over again. I guess it is a commonality in the way all of us think when we first get a Mac. I thought about this same exact thing but once I figured it was more trouble than it was worth, I decided to punt the whole idea. The Mac is a pretty dry boat and I will leave mine in a wet slip for months at a time without any moisture accumulating at all (seal the chainplates).

For me, it was quite a leap of faith though..because my former O'Day keel boat had an inboard with a propshaft. When that stuffing box started dripping real bad, you would be SOL if the bilge pump failed. I was away on a business trip once and the boat flooded some when the pump switch failed...just from a prop shaft drip. Guess it takes a lot of drops to put 2-3 inches of water in a 27 ft boat. I was quite amazed at how dry the Mac is...compared to my old boat.

[Pouw Geuzebroek]

I have a hand pump stored in the Bathroom. Only use it once a year when the boat comes out of the water, but a large mug would also do the same job.

[mike]

I went ahead and installed a pump in our X...

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/cgi-bin ... record=248

However, it's never been activated (aside from my testing), and probably never will be. It was really just a "feel-good" mod, as I just couldn't get past the feeling that a boat stored in a slip NEEDS a bilge pump. To my knowledge, there's only one underwater through-hull, which is my waste pump-out. If it were to develop a leak, the bilge pump could probably handle it. If it were to totally break loose, the pump would only make the boat fill with water a little slower than it otherwise would.

I suppose it could also theoretically come in handy if a large wave came over the stern and dumped a bunch of water in the cabin.

In short, I'm glad its there, but I acknowledge that it's really not a necessity.

--Mike

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

We just carry a hand pump. I've had it on board for 4 seasons now. Never used it until this year. It now get's regular use on our trips. It works great to pump the water from the melted ice out of the coolers into the sink. Other than that it just takes up space.

This is just one of the many things that are different about a mac. It's a simple boat that only needs simple things. It doesn't need all the complexity of a round the world cruiser. This applies to many more things than a bilge pump. Put your money into the fun stuff. Keep the systems super simple.

[richandlori]

Thanks for your comments, West Marine is having a "sale" and for $20 bucks, I will just buy a hand pump to mainly use for pumping melted ice out of the cooler. Once less electrial thing to worry about....I agree with keep it simple!

Thanks

Rich

[Chip Hindes]

Not having a bilge pump because you've never needed it yet is roughly equivalent to not having a pfd because you've never yet fallen overboard. Fix the leaks and forget the bilge pump? I say fix the leaks and get a bilge pump (or two or three) as well. These are not related. Bilge pumps are not really intended for the stray few drops which come in through the leaky chainplates.

Two years ago I spent nearly forty minutes hove to in fairly high winds and heavy seas, using the hand bilge pump to empty out an estimated nearly 100 gallons of water that came in when I (rather stupidly, I admit) left the ballast handle open and vent plug out. Hove to because I was singlehanding. I was relatively close to the lakeshore and no doubt could have motored there even with the unwanted, unfixed, extra water ballast. But it made me think twice about venturing up to 35 miles offshore (as I have now, two years in a row) with nothing but a hand pump. If you're never farther than easy swimming distance from shore, then maybe you can do without a bilge pump.

Since then I have installed three bilge pumps, all 360 GPH Rules, so combined theoretical capacity over 1000 GPH. One is in the center bilge compartment, and one in each of the beam locations above the full length longitudinal ribs. They each have a separate discharge hose and fitting and they all discharge just below the rub rail on the starboard side. They're well above the water line, even heeled, so even though this means they have to pump additional head, no backflow and/or check valves to fail. They are mounted on loose flat plates so they could all be moved into the center bilge compartment in an emergency. These pumps can be run dry, so no expensive float switches; and they are all wired to a single fused panel switch.

I believe these were $15 each, and another $30 for fittings and hoses; cheap insurance IMO.

I'm fully aware that, if the boat is holed below the waterline, even 1000 GPH won't be enough to keep the boat afloat forever. But as with any bilge pumps on any boat, it may give me enough additional time to plug the hole before the boat goes down. Once the hole is plugged it will be nice not to have to break my back and arms with a hand pump, or as some of you seem to be suggesting, a bucket and sponge.

[craiglaforce]

Chip, I originally thought similarly to you, and installed a 500 and a 350 GPH cheap rule pump on mine originally. One was wired to an automatic float switch and the other with a cigarette lighter plug. Both installed outside the starboard rib and Tee'ed into to the head sink drain with a shutoff valve. After never using them I removed one of them and just keep the one that is fully manual with the cig lighter plug. Plus it seems they only deliver about half of rated capacity in the real world, since they are rated at zero head and generous input voltage. I guess if by some chance a big wave did get into the cabin it would be nice to have, But for any significant hull leak if you look at the leak rates it would overwhelm most bilge pump setups. If you really want to be safe maybe look into a gasoline powered water pump like the coasties will drop to you from their helicopter.
Also useful for putting out apartment building fires, blasting jet skiers, auxilary propulsion if used like a jet boat, and washing off the anchor from long range. Kidding a little bit, but it would be kind of a neat toy.

[Chip Hindes]

Craig:

I'm familiar with the rating system for bilge pumps; because of the way mine are installed and the head they're pumping, it would not surprise me in the least if these pumps delivered half their rated output or even less, but 500 GPH is still about ten times better than you can do with a hand pump, and fifty or sixty times better than you can do with a bucket and sponge. Assuming the outboard is running, my 11 amp alternator is capable of keeping the voltage up even with all three pumps running; if not, well, it's still better than nothing. I can tell you from experience, when you're hand pumping or bucket-and-sponging, you 're not doing anything else; this can be pretty important if you're singlehanding.

Though I sympatize with the reluctance of some to put holes in the hull and particularly agree that through hulls below the waterline are to be avoided if at all possible, I have never been fond of the idea of teeing bilge pumps into the sink drain lines. Even with a failure prone check valve, I believe this is likely to cause more problems than it solves. In fact, I'd guess you're much more likely to accidentally drain your sink into the bilge than actually pump bilge water out through the sink drain.

Without the automatic float switch, my boat is "helpless" to react when I'm not there. This wasn't a consideration when I was trailering all the time, but perhaps I need to rethink it now that the boat is slipped during the summer. I still think it's most likely there will be a problem when I'm in the boat.

Though I like the idea of a gasoline driven pump which would double as auxlliary water cannon, as a great adjunct to my pneumatic anchor launcher, I think it's all a matter of relative degrees of protection versus expense for the most likely scenario. Based on my most likely scenario, this is both a degree and an expense to which I don't aspire.

[Jack O'Brien]

I have purchased 4 pumps.

The only one "installed" so far is the WM manual one stowed under the port forward seat. Since its hose is no longer than the pump, I do have a longer cheap flex hose that fits and reaches the cockpit. This pump can also be used in the dinghy or on Chip's boat if needed.

I have the two smallest Rule pumps with integral float switches that I had planned to mount at the "low points" centrally port and starboard and would discharge into the two sink drain lines, with elevated loops of course. Got the smallest ones that could suck up the thinnest water. Haven't seen enough water in the bilge yet that would make them work. Did vacuum out 5 gallons after a rough trip to the Dry Tortugas and back last October.

The fourth pump is a 2000 GPH manual-switch Rule that I plan to locate near the stern and discharge to the motor well hose. That line is bigger than the exit holes but there are two holes.

I figure the hull is more likely to crack than suffer an actual big hole if I prong it on something. Cracks leak less fast than holes and a 2000
GPM pump should buy some time, especially with the two small pumps helping. The stern location is a guess as to which end of the boat will settle lower with lots of water in it, which location the crew would gravitate to, and which end will be lower with the engine pushing full bore for the beach.

This may seem like overkill for the shallow waters of SE Florida but, what if we're motoring across the Gulf Stream to Bimini and hit one of those mostly submerged containers floating all over the oceans?

[Erik Hardtle]

Get BOTH....

I agree with Chip Not having a bilge pump because you've never needed it yet is roughly equivalent to not having a pfd because you've never yet fallen overboard.

I have one big bilge pump with an automatic switch located under the cooler insert (26X) This is an added "piece of mind" that while the boat is taking on water I can concentrate on saving the wife and kids and the boat without being stuck hand pumping.

I ran the bilge tube to a garden hose T fitting that the sink also feeds into, which then attaches to the exiting thru hull fitting for the head sink. The bilge tube has a loop to keep the sink & outside water from coming back in.

"Better out then in I always say!"

[kmclemore]

I have one big bilge pump with an automatic switch located under the cooler insert (26X)

Me too... pump with float switch under the insert, mounted to a panel that was f'glassed to the hull. Has a separate thru-hull and check valve, though, and does not go out through the sink outlet.

[Lake Hopper]

I installed a 3500gpm pump with auto float switch under the ice box insert, next to the starboard ballast tank tube. If the boat is fairly level, this is the lowest point in the bilge of my 26X. I ran 1" i.d. hose under the head and up to the topside above the rub rail. My backup is the manual WM hand pump, mainly used to empty small amounts of water not large enough to float the bilge switch.

Once in another boat, I had a main water tank break while I was away, and 75 gallons of water made a nice mess of mildew in summer heat. Another time, I observed a drunken power boat driver run his bow up on the back of a small sail boat which filled the cockpit with water. Before anyone could get around to that dock to bail it out, it sank. Maybe an good sized pump would have prevented the disasters.

Better have it work for youi while you are away, than wish you had it. after youir boat is sunk or really messed up.

[Chip Hindes]

Although it might be just what you need for a really big hole in the boat, I seriously doubt whether any of you has a 3500, 2000 or even 360 gpm pump.

A 3500 gpm pump would take about 50-60 HP.

It's gph.