Motor change with a lot of options

[elvatoli]

I'm planning to upgrade my 9.8 2 stroke Tohatsu for my 2000 MacX
The Tohatsu dealer wants $5800 (everything included) for a new 50hp 2 stroke, wich he said is the right one for this boat.
I dont know if this is the maximum power one with still a rope to start ?
I would like to have this starting option since I have been out of electric power in the past. I'm running 2 interstate 24 deep cycle batteries, but with a lot connected to it CD stereo, Depth sounder, Speed meter, Charplotter, Fish finder, 2000 W inverter , Fridge, Microwave oven, etc.
I would like also to have plenty of charging power from my motor to replenish my batteries.
And as everybody want to have the maximum possible power to attain the maximum possible speed without loosing control, and at the minimum price with the max warranty.
I'm thinking on the Tohatsu 90 since with is less weight than others and very reliable. My Tohatsu 9.8 have been working every time with any problem.
any ideas ?
Thank you
Hector elvatoli
Port Isabel, SPI, Brownsville, San Benito, RGV, Texas

[Bobby T.-26X #4767]

the benefit of the Tohatsu 90 is reliability and easy/inexpensive maintenance.
also, great power to weight ratio (310#, can power an X to 30mph).
that said...it is old technology.

generally, a 2-stroke isn't as quiet and smooth running (when in gear & in low speeds) as a 4-stroke.
the New! Suzuki 70-80-90hp & New! Honda 75-90hp both weigh over 360#, but are the newest technology available.
either one would be a great option.

i can't speak for the Evinrude 90hp 2-stroke, but there have been many positive reviews for that motor as well.
weighs a bit more than the Tohatsu.

at the time I purchased my Tohatsu 90hp, it was the best value and lightest weight (i.e. $7,200 installed)
however, now you have several more options to choose from in both 2 & 4-stroke
and based on some recent posts, the prices are still very competitive (i.e. under $9,000 installed???)

let us know what you decide...

Bob T.
"DāBob"
'02X w/ '04 90-TLDI (14" x 11 pitch)
Dinghy Motor: '06 2.5-Suzuki

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I don't think I would characterize the Tohatsu TLDI 90 as old technology. It, and the eTec from Evinrude, are state of the art 2 stroke motors. They are high pressure fuel injected, computer controlled motors that have the advantage of being light weight, low maintenance, high reliability two strokes.

This is simply different technology than the many 4 stroke motors on the market today. They each have their advantages and disadvantages.

[daver360]

Just sold my Suzuki df-50 on cl and bought and installed a 2001 df70 on my 26x and love the upgrade the 50 wouldn't get the boat out of the water with ballast full, the 70 will no problem. I if they had a good used Suzuki 90 I would go with that hind sight. Go with the 90 I put a 14x11 prop on mine thanks to this website and very pleased with it also.

[Bobby T.-26X #4767]

I don't think I would characterize the Tohatsu TLDI 90 as old technology. It, and the eTec from Evinrude, are state of the art 2 stroke motors. They are high pressure fuel injected, computer controlled motors that have the advantage of being light weight, low maintenance, high reliability two strokes. This is simply different technology than the many 4 stroke motors on the market today. They each have their advantages and disadvantages.

maybe i've been misunderstood...
Tohatsu 90 is a very reliable and efficient outboard. requires very little maintenance. and, for me, was the very best choice at the time of purchase in fall of 2004 (lightweight, powerful, excellent value).

that said,
- the technology is 8 years old (how old is your cell phone or GPS. if older than 3yrs, i consider it old technology)
- the Tohatsu is "Low-pressure Direct Injection" technology (hence T - L - D - I)
- it's 2-Star emission rated (has not been updated to 3-Star, no plans with the TLDI technology)
- the entire lower unit is the same component as pre-2002 90-150hp Tohatsu 2-stroke smokers. in fact, when discussed w/ the Tohatsu tech he revealed that the "next" generation Tohatsu is slated to have a completely re-designed lower unit, different than the current one used for nearly 15 years
- finally, regarding the E-Tec product...it's 2 years newer than the Tohatsu technology. completely redesigned (from top to bottom) as compared to its predecessors. it's "high pressure injection" & high temperature internal burn allows for 3-Star emission rating

i love my Tohatsu 90hp. it works for me.

Bob T.
"DāBob"
'02X w/ '04 90-TLDI (14" x 11 pitch)
Dinghy Motor: '06 2.5-Suzuki

[vkmaynard]

the New! Suzuki 70-80-90hp & New! Honda 75-90hp both weigh over 360

Actually the Suzuki DF90 weighs 341 lbs while the Honda BF90 weighs 366 lbs. The ETech weighs 320 lbs, not a significant weight saving over the Suzuki.

I was personally turned off by ETechs marketing. They claim that they have only a few moving parts and therefore will never be in the shop (once every three years) as opposed to a 4 cycle which apparently break down every few months, or so they would imply. I see lots of commercial fishing boats here mostly running 4 strokes (Suzuki and Honda). Billy (XX) has been running his Suzuki 140 since 2001 with no trips to the shop.

Everyone has their preferences. I just like quite, reliable, great fuel economy and not having to deal with oil outside of the motor/gearbox. If there was a huge weigh difference I would have to reconsider our purchase.

This weekend we are going to run our 26X/Suzuki 90 and a friend's 26M/ETech 90 to get some semi-compartive #s for prop sizing on both boats. So far the 26M/ETech is maxing out at 25-26 mph (something seems not correct) while the 26X/Suzuki is hitting 29.5 during break-in on it's first prop (currently over proped, should reach 30 mph).

ETech claims a much better "hole shot" than other 4 cycle motors due to "higher low end torque". Our Suzuki is actually a little dangerous in that it nearly thru me off the boat when I pushed the throttle a little too aggressively. I calculated only a 5% slippage in the 13.75 x 15 4 blade prop (lots of traction). So this should be a real interesting line up. My friend with the M used to race hydrofoils so he is real knowledgeable on getting performance from boats and motors. I am looking forward to his help.

Victor

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

You may find that you will never match the X's speed on a M. BWY did testing with different motors on the M and found that it's rounder hull shape (which gives it better sailing characteristics) limited top end speed no matter how much horsepower you put on the back. They found going from a 70 to a 90 on an M did not make any appreciable increase in speed and the M hull design seems to self limit at around 25 mph. The flatter hull of the X does not have this characteristic and just goes faster the more motor you strap on.

As for the 2 stroke vs 4 stroke, they each have their market. I don't buy the assertion that even 8 year old motor design is old. Most of the 4 strokes are using designs of that same vintage. These are motors you run for decades on your boat, not cell phones you change out every year. In particular, the lower unit design has the lowest impact of anything on motor performance, it's the motor head that does the work. Not much has changed in in the simple design of a shaft, some gears, and a propeller. There's only so much you can do down there. Sure you can make the exterior lower drag and optimize the exhaust flow but that's about it. The differences between 2 stroke and 4 stroke lower units of today are nearly identical to those of the 90's.

To read the engineering behind the TLDI you could easily argue that Low Pressure direct injection is actually better than high pressure direct injection. The TLDI pressure of 80 psi is still quite a bit above the ambient pressure you get with an old school carbs. The science behind it shows you get a smaller fuel droplet than those that inject under high pressure which gives you a more complete burn resulting in lower emissions and higher mileage.

Personally I think the fact that the Tohatsu uses the same tried and true lower units and blocks that made my Tohatsu 50 such a bulletproof motor is an advantage over the untested fresh off the drawing board motors.

My point is simply that those looking for a new motor should not write of the Tohatsu as old and not worth considering.

I'm headed out on the water today to do testing of what makes all these gas motors look like old technology. Allegro is now fitted as my first prototype with a "Plugin Hybrid Electric" drive system. Now that's the future of boating propulsion.

[vkmaynard]

You may find that you will never match the X's speed on a M. BWY did testing with different motors on the M and found that it's rounder hull shape (which gives it better sailing characteristics) limited top end speed no matter how much horsepower you put on the back. They found going from a 70 to a 90 on an M did not make any appreciable increase in speed and the M hull design seems to self limit at around 25 mph.

That would explain why the 90 hp motor can not get above 25 mph. I think the Suzuki 90 on the M in Russia is experiencing the same situation.

Victor

[elvatoli]

Does anybody knows wich motor is the biggest wih a rope start ?
Tohatsu 70 ?

Thank you
Hector

[David Mellon]

My ETEC 60 can be pull started, but you need to use a wrench to pull off the guard and find a rope to fit. Still l do like the idea that the option exists. That said I carry a battery for my electric outboard and a Black & Decker portable power unit, so, 4 starting batteries onboard. If the starter is broken then the rope start would be nice as an option. I don't remember a larger engine with a rope start from my research 3 years ago.

[Highlander]

Da ! I don't think so in fact I know so been their & faster just ask Beene he's been their also Guess their's less gravity pull on the Earth's surface on the east coast Eh,
Guess you guy's are going against the Earths rotation ???????
Theirs more to it than just slapping on a bigger Eng. !!!!!!!
J

[K9Kampers]

Does anybody knows wich motor is the biggest wih a rope start ?
Tohatsu 70 ?

Thank you
Hector

The Tohatsu website lists the 30 as the largest being both electric and manual start. Many larger engines can be manual started by wrapping a rope around the flywheel. Have done that to my Tohatsu 50 as well as a Johnson 120.

[vkmaynard]

Da ! I don't think so in fact I know so been their & faster

What does "I don't think so in fact I know so been there & faster" mean? Have you exceeded 25 mph (GPS #s) on your M? If so that's good news for this weekend prop test.

Victor

[Highlander]

Yes Victor
28Mp/H on Beene's boat gps recorded I know someone just posted speeds of exccess of 31Mp/H but cannot remember if it was an X or an M

good luck with you prop selections !

J

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I assume those who are getting up to 28 are measuring in Statute miles per hour. All the speeds I refer to are Nautical miles per hour, the only unit of measurement that should be used on a boat as all distances on marine charts are in Nautical Miles. 25 Nmph = 28.75 Smph.