macgregor 25 vs macgregor 26

[cbig]

Am interested in buying one or the other. There's as nice mac 25 84 model with older but functional honda 7.5, genoa with trailer updated to surge brakes. Trailer seems ok, not like the rusted shells I have seen. Owner has replaced all rollers and much rigging. Boat seems clean, but does have a patch looking area where he says previous owner fixed it. 2nd owner. Keel seems ok. I cannot see any damage.

There's also a decent 26s 95 model, clean with a very new outboard. Difference in price is about 3k + I am guessing without the bargaining done. Which is the preferred boat and at what price? I hear the 25 with the swing keel is more stable, little heavier, tad slower but more family friendly. Keel is the question mark on how the boat was cared for. The 26 I hear heels over very quick and is discerning to some, especially wives as it gets heeled over farther and faster than the 25. The water ballast is too high to restrict heel early. Any advice as to the better deal? More durable boat?

Thanks,
Chuck

[Sumner]

First of all this will probably be a somewhat biased opinion as of course as you know we have a 90 S and love it. I've also never been on a 25 so hopefully someone will step in with their views from that side of the fence.

Let's get the heeling thing out of the way first. I've never been on the 25 so no comparison there, but here are some numbers from this site....

http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

....the capsize ratio for the S is 2.24 vs. 2.45 for the 25. So as far actually capsizing the S should be less likely to capsize given the same circumstances. They usually recommend below 2 for a boat that is truly ocean going if I remember right and of course neither of these boats are meant to cross oceans, but you should read the account of the guy that sailed an S to Panama through some really heavy weather. Ruth isn't crazy about the heeling aspect of sailing and thinks we heel too much to fast at time, but that isn't a comparison as she hasn't been on a 25 either. Now there have been times when we have been in over 30 mph winds underway with the sail down and the boat was very stable and never for a moment gave reason for fear. We have also sustained if you read our Lake Powell report 50-60 mph winds at anchor and the boat was just fine. Like I tell Ruth all the time sailboats were designed to heel and they will and you just build confidence in them. Her comfort zone is now moving from the 8 to 10 degrees to the 12-15 degrees sustained heel. You control the heeling with the sails, so make it what makes you wife comfortable. I'm adding a traveler to the main sheet and that will help even more.

One other aspect is what they call Motion Comfort and the S is 11.43 and the 25 is 8.8. The higher the number the better the comfort level. Now to be honest I don't know what the actual "feel" difference is between the two.

If you are going to trailer much the S for sure as it isn't carrying around the 500+ lb. keel. You will easily get any of these boats higher in overall weight from what you think you will if you are taking them down the road for extended trips. It is nice to not have to lift that heavy outboard on and off, plus it isn't taking up room in the tow vehicle. Likewise for a lot of the other stuff you will put in the boat. If I remember you said your tow vehicle has a 3500 lb. rating. You will quickly get to that with the boat, trailer, and what is in and on it.

Talking about the keel I've only been on these boards a little over a year and have read of a few 25 keel failures where they actually lost the keel and I've never seen that situation with an S. If you get the 25 I for sure would drop it enough to really inspect it. In fact I'm doing that with our S this year also. I feel hitting the bottom with the centerboard on the S is not quite as big a deal as hitting it with the 25 as you really should have the 25's keel pinned whereas the S's isn't and can easily swing up.

Not sure what you meant by

..... more family friendly

. I think the S has more overall storage and the aft bed is larger as far as I know and I don't think the 25 has the huge laz. that the S has and that storage area is indispensable for us.

The S you mentioned is over 10 years newer and if they had equal care that might be worth something there. If the one outboard is almost new and the other not that could also account for about $2000 right there. We got a pretty good running 8 HP Honda, but are now spending a little over $2000 for a new 9.8 HP extra long shaft Tohatsu. The main reason is that Ruth can't start the Honda and the Tohatsu will have electric start. I consider that as big a safety feature as any other feature on the boat. If either of those outboards are electric start and the other isn't that to me now is a big deal. If you wife can't start the outboard what happens if you fall overboard or you are injured and can't start it yourself like what happened to us on Powell. We overlooked this at first, but we won't any longer.

Well good luck and you will probably be happy with either, but of course if we had it to do all over again it would for sure be the S.

Sum

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[blue angel]

I sailed a 25 for years and now have a 26m. I think the answer is basically the newer the better, but the older 26s does have a few advantages over even the newest ones, sail faster, lighter, simpler. With that choice I would go with the 26s.,and at some point you may want more room and speed under power with the x or m.

[ChockFullOnuts22]

The trailering weight is a pretty big difference, thanks to the cast iron keel on the 25 vs. water ballast on the 26s.

And (someone correct me if I'm wrong here) as far as I know, the centerboard on the 26s is of composite construction and low weight. This will virtually eliminate the worry of cast-iron-keel-boat owners that the keel will rust and fall out of the bottom of the boat. At the age these MacGregors and Ventures are reaching, testimonies of people losing their keels is becoming more frequent. This is not to say that it will definitely ever happen to you, but it is a concern will a cast iron keel that has seen a lot of use on the water. The 26s doesn't have that problem.

On a side note, MacGregor does not sell replacement keels for the older keel boats. No one sells an aftermarket keel, either.

On the flipside, with the 26s, you have to deal with the minor inconvenience of filling/draining the ballast tanks as/when needed. No big deal, but some people like to launch and go without bothering with ballast. Your preference.

26s owners: the ballast tanks only take up to 10 minutes to fill or drain, right? And are the bottoms of the boats more rounded than the 25's?

Other than that, I would look at both boats and see which one you like better. I've never heard a complaint that the 26s feels unsafe to sail. Look at the rigging, cabins, trailers, cockpits, and ammenities, and decide which one suits your tastes best. One thing that I will say to look at on both boats is the aft end of the hull that hangs over the back end of the trailer. I have heard that sometimes the 25's and 26s's have problems with the weight of the hull hanging over the end of the trailer causes that portion of the hull to sag. I've never seen it in person, but I've heard others mention it about these boats.

[cbig]

The 26s does have an electric start motor. KISS principle being what it is, I would prefer the 26d - no centerboard issues at all... no cable, bolt, etc. The other 25 macs I'd seen had serious gel coat cracks where the keel mounted. I was told by someone this is a fault of not lowering the keel into the slot on the trailer properly before towing.

Doesn't sound like either boat is more structurally sound than the other. Hopefully it will come down to numbers.

Thanks!
CB

[Doug91mac26s]

I'll chime in here! I have a 26S and love it. I'll try to add to some of the points ChockFullOnuts22 made. The 26C's weigh 1650lbs, the 25 weighs 2100lbs, so trailering is a little easier with a 26C, either a "D" or an "S". The factory centerboard on both the "D" and "S" have a hollow core, which is designed to fill with water as it is lowered. Both types are available new thru Blue Water Yachts, for $233.00. When I first got my boat, the centerboard was split a little, so I opted to get a new one from Idasailor, made out of HDPE, it's solid and does not fill with water.

It's true the ballast tanks only take about ten minutes to fill. Just put the boat in the water, go park the tow vehicle, by the time you return it will be full.

The 26C's have a huge aft birth, in addition to the v-berth . The 25 has the v-berth, a quarter berth, and the dinette makes into a small bed.

With regard to the 25 said to be more family friendly, I don't understand either. Maybe the dinette table helps with small kids. But I think both the 25 or 26C's are well suited for families.

Sum already provided numbers that show some sailing characteristics of both boats. I don't think you'd be disappointed with how a 26C sails.

I solved the stern overhang problem by replacing my trailer.



Having said all that, I've seen some really nice 25's! Just make sure the keel and all it's associated hardware is in good shape. I suppose it boils down to personal preference and price, and taking into consideration all the gear that comes with the deal.

One more thing I should add. There have been a couple reports of the dagger board on 26D's getting stuck in the trunk due to swelling. It seems there are things to watch out for on all the models. And these things of course are not exclusive to Mac's, these are things you need to watch out for with any brand older boat you buy.

[cbig]

Any suggestions on how to check those keels and centerboards while on the trailer? In the water won't work.

Thanks!

[Doug91mac26s]

A 26S can be somewhat inspected laying under the boat. You can also see pretty good the pin if it's the same model as mine. There's not a lot that goes wrong with the pin, it's the hole in the centerboard that might be damaged. I've heard of people fixing that kind of damage though. Even if it's split, it can be repaired, I just opted to get a new one. There's another type "S" model that has the pivot pin accessible from inside the boat. I personally prefer the kind like mine that is accessible from the bottom of the boat.

Here's what mine looked like when I first got it. I could see it was split.


Here's what my new Idasailor centerboard looks like.


Here's the centerboard pivot pin and brackets like mine has, which is available at Blue Water Yachts.


I think on a 26D, you can pull the daggerboard out the top for inspection, which is nice. The 26S is more difficult, in that in order to remove the centerboard, you'll need to be able to clear the trailer, which can be a bit of a job. But hey, you won't be doing this very often, and the centerboard is light.

With regard to a Mac25, you'll have to get under the boat and inspect it the best you can. If it's in the water, crank it up/down, make sure it's operation is smooth.

If I were buying a Mac25, unless the seller could prove all is sound, such as new cable and parts, etc., I'd plan to drop it and rebuild it. Now, realize the 500 pound keel of a Mac25 will be much harder to deal with than a lightweight centerboard, or the lightwight daggerboard on the "D" models.

[Sumner]

The 26s does have an electric start motor. KISS principle being what it is, I would prefer the 26d - no centerboard issues at all... no cable, bolt, etc. .......Thanks!..CB

If I'm reading that right you might be comparing the centerboard on the S to the keel on the 25 and if so they are no way a like except they lower into the water by pivoting down. You don't lock the centerboard on the S with a pin. If it hits something it pivots up out of the way with usually no damage to it. If you hit the centerboard on a D hard enough it can fracture and totally break in half. That happened to John on the other board. Of course that is probably better that it breaks in half vs. possibly fracturing the trunk that it slides up and down in. The S is for sure the better of the two if you are going to sail shallow water at any time. We have hit bottom a couple time and run the depth finder most of the time and try an be careful.

It sounds like maybe you are trying to decide between one particular 25 vs. one particular 26S. If that is the case I wouldn't do that. I'd make up my mind which boat I wanted, either a 25 or a D or a S and then find that model boat. I have friends that are into hot rods and trade, buy and sell and never have a car for too long. If you think that is going to be the case with the boat then it probably doesn't make much difference which one you start with.

If this is a long term investment take the time to get the model you want. No mater which you get and the shape it is in you are going to put money in the boat that you won't be getting out of it when you sell it, so put that money in the boat that is right for you. Believe me on the money part, so if you plan on keeping it more than a season or so find the right boat to begin with. We were ready to drive 1400 miles for an S as that is what we wanted for sure, but then got lucky and found one 400 miles away. If we were doing it again I would drive 2000 miles for one if I had to as that is a one time drive. Hopefully you will have the boat for a long time, so get the one you want up front. You shouldn't have to drive even 600 miles to find the right 25, D or S.

Good luck,

Sum

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[markaram]

Hi All
this is a very good topic of discussing macgregor
sailboats.
the classic question of choose your boat...
considering your budget , knowledge and
real comfort level.
Both boats represent the product mainstays of the
corporation being its hall of fame winner of swing
keel design and the present and future represented
by a comfortable water ballast powersailor. Yet the 25 evolved
from the 22 and 24 which were truly well performing
sailboats and the 26s was designed to save trailering weight
and boost low wind performance. My similar mac 21 is a perfect boat for the most part and sails very swiftly especially in lighter winds. One would notice
the very slow angle of heel upon sailing into a freshening breeze with
no weather helm. The more sail you put up the better the performance.
Yet all of these models are excellent performers and are worth preserving
so they last a long time.
It will be evident or ...it is evident as we speak....
Macs rock and need to be looked
after and made to last
lets make it happen

[DaveB]

Nice trailer lines and supports, you can launch in thin water ramps and keep Truck out of water.

I'll chime in here! I have a 26S and love it. I'll try to add to some of the points ChockFullOnuts22 made. The 26C's weigh 1650lbs, the 25 weighs 2100lbs, so trailering is a little easier with a 26C, either a "D" or an "S". The factory centerboard on both the "D" and "S" have a hollow core, which is designed to fill with water as it is lowered. Both types are available new thru Blue Water Yachts, for $233.00. When I first got my boat, the centerboard was split a little, so I opted to get a new one from Idasailor, made out of HDPE, it's solid and does not fill with water.

It's true the ballast tanks only take about ten minutes to fill. Just put the boat in the water, go park the tow vehicle, by the time you return it will be full.

The 26C's have a huge aft birth, in addition to the v-berth . The 25 has the v-berth, a quarter berth, and the dinette makes into a small bed.

With regard to the 25 said to be more family friendly, I don't understand either. Maybe the dinette table helps with small kids. But I think both the 25 or 26C's are well suited for families.

Sum already provided numbers that show some sailing characteristics of both boats. I don't think you'd be disappointed with how a 26C sails.

I solved the stern overhang problem by replacing my trailer.



Having said all that, I've seen some really nice 25's! Just make sure the keel and all it's associated hardware is in good shape. I suppose it boils down to personal preference and price, and taking into consideration all the gear that comes with the deal.

One more thing I should add. There have been a couple reports of the dagger board on 26D's getting stuck in the trunk due to swelling. It seems there are things to watch out for on all the models. And these things of course are not exclusive to Mac's, these are things you need to watch out for with any brand older boat you buy.

[Sumner]

.........I solved the stern overhang problem by replacing my trailer.

..........

Not really related to the thread, but thanks Doug for posting the picture. Of course I've seen your great trailer before, but your comments got me to thinking about putting another support for the boat further back.

I've just started adding a second axle. Today I started on the sub-frame that will go under the stock Mac frame and will have the spring hangers on it. As a result of your posting I'm going to take it back past the present frame and then extend the present frame back about 4 1/2 feet and add another bunk back there.

We will trailer with the outboard and the dinghy outboard on the back of the Mac and I'm also adding a 16 gallon fuel tank in the laz. and the laz is always full, so I think the added support back there is a wise thing to do.

Thanks,

Sum

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[argonaut]

Both are good boats.
Lots of minor differences... I prefer the more open 25 interior layout, I like the v berth for sleeping over the aft berth in the 26S.
I think any speed diff is negligable.
If you trailer a lot the 26S is easier to launch & retrieve and lighter to tow. I knew a guy that launched, sailed and retrieved by himself with a small van.
If you will be in salt water the 25's iron keel is a detriment. The pivot pin can rust and worst case, if it fails bad things could happen, so I wouldn't want one (or a catalina 22 or 25) for salt water.
If you are in freshwater both boats would stay on my horizon, the keel pin on the 25 isn't as big a problem in freshwater.
I've been in and on a 26S and the interior had a liner, not sure the 25 does. It just makes a more finished looking interior.
Other diffs are in previous posts.

[cbig]

Thanks for the info. We are narrowing it down. I saw a 25 this weekend. In decent running condition but it is still heavily used with some chinsy repair work. Might have better luck looking for the 26 s or d. I checked this boat's keel - very easy to see on the trailer. Little surface rust, no distortion inside the pin box from not being lowered onto the trailer. It will be a tough sell to get the wife on it. Hopefully the 26 s or d boats aren't quite as rough. Will take the advice and focus on those, or wait to buy when we have the resources and sure we will use a 26m.

[cbig]

Bought a 26d today. I found a fairly pristine 1990 model, patience got her done! Gelcoat looks fresh, almost new. The owner was the original. Cleanest outboard I ever saw. He had a engine log going way back and must have had 30hrs on it. My sailing partner and I went in halves. We hope to work out a convenient system. We paid 5k for it .... much better than anything we'd seen. Seller will even take us out to show us the ropes! Great guy. Thanks all for your suggestions. I narrowed the search down to th d model and we'll sort out the kinks.