Down goes the keel.....

[Sumner]

I got the guy at MacGregor to send me a sketch of the keel. My father in law and brother in law are going to take a shot at building. My father in laws idea was to take some scrap 1/4" steel he has, cut into four pieces and weld it into sort of a stretched diamond shape. Then, depending on the weight, adding steel shot if need be. Or, he said for a little more cost he has a friend that could bend two pieces into shape so there would be no weld on the sides. They also have the means to lift the boat with no problem. This is great!!

As mentioned above in another post, I dont know with this shape if I will need to coat it. Think thats absolutely necessary?

Will it work? Sure you will have a weight hanging under the boat, but with the flat surfaces you won't have the right airfoil shape at all. You can get closer the more pieces you use to make the shape, but you will have turbulence at every edge and that will induce drag and you won't have the lift mentioned in the other posts. I admire them for tackling the job, but think in the long run you will be dissatisfied with it and will still want to either get rid of the boat, look for a donor boat or try and find a proper keel. I also think you will have a lot more time in it than you realize and even though you might feel now that a loss of performance is not that bad down the road you will probably think different.

I've done a lot of metal work and body work on cars and other projects and wouldn't tackle the job. If the keel wasn't weighted like on the Mac S I'd shape and make one using wood and glass possibly, but not a keel that has to also be weighted.

Good luck and post pictures if you guys do it and report back how happy you are with it,

Sum

Our Trips to...

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

[JoeVacs]

Sumr, while I almost always agree with you, I'm not sure I do on this one. I rebuilt my keel and it has flat sides and a square nose. I wanted it to turn out prettier and more hydro-dynamic, but it wasn't possible for me to do that without missing too much of the sailing season, so I just finished it rough. It seems to work fine. After all, a Mac 22, like a V17, aint no race boat. Of coarse you want as much speed as you can get, but i would think that flat sided steel keel wouldn't cause enough drag to be a concern on that boat. Of coarse I have limited experience to draw from, because I haven't ever experienced a brand new V17 to compare how much worse mine sails, much less a Mac 22, so who knows, maybe you're right.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25826781@N ... 736968896/

[Sumner]

Sum, while I almost always agree with you, I'm not sure I do on this one. ........

Hey I respect that and I'm not saying one built like that won't work, I just feel in the long run it will prove to be a disappointment. If a person sails a lot and keeps the boat they will probably still end up searching for a used one. If they just use the boat a few times a year they will probably be perfectly happy.

All of this is just my opinion,

Sum

Our Trips to...

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

[JoeVacs]

...and I respect your opinion. Heck we're a lot alike. If I didn't have anything else to tinker with on my boat, it would drive me crazy. Mama won't let me get another boat till I sell this one, but I don't want to sell it, so I keep tinkerin...

[Sumner]

Well hopefully his wishes have been granted....

http://forums.macgregor.sailboatowners. ... post703670

Sum

[old guys sail]

sumner--I like how you bounce back and forth like I do! I havent called that gentleman yet. My father in law has been out of town, will go over all these ideas saturday. As far as the individual with the used boat, I keep thinking about if a used 30+ yr old keel will be better than the one that broke on me.

Also--an idea. If my father in law makes this straight sided keel, couldnot I make some sort of mold and fill it with resin and dip this puppy in there--and get the aerodynamic shape i need?

[Sumner]

sumner--I like how you bounce back and forth like I do! I havent called that gentleman yet. My father in law has been out of town, will go over all these ideas saturday. As far as the individual with the used boat, I keep thinking about if a used 30+ yr old keel will be better than the one that broke on me.

Also--an idea. If my father in law makes this straight sided keel, couldnot I make some sort of mold and fill it with resin and dip this puppy in there--and get the aerodynamic shape i need?

If it sounds decent and the price is right I'd go look at it at least. The other guy needs a mast, so if the price is right you guys could possibly split the price and still possibly part out more of the boat.

To do what you suggested you would first have to make a male plug that is shaped correctly and then take a female mold off of that. Then make sure you rudder is centered in the mold. Then resin is not meant to be used by itself. If you went the route you are talking I would build up the surface of your flat keel to shape and then "glass" and resin that. Then use a waterproof filler to get the final shape and then.......

I've already said I wouldn't do it no more than I would think I could design a proper airplane wing. I'm sure some of the other guys will have some thoughts that have worked with glass and have designed/built rudders or keels. You might want to look at this rudder build to get some ideas....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... ods-1.html

I hear what you are saying about a 30 year keel, but there are lots out there that haven't had a catastrophic failure such as yours did and I wouldn't say that one day they would look fine and the next fall off and break in half. If the price is right at least go look at it,

Sum

Our Trips to...

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

[ChockFullOnuts22]

If you do buy the boat and part it out, PM me. I could use a new bow pulpit and a pop-top.

As far as I've read around the web, the mold-and-resin method is what MacGregor used when they made the original steel & fiberglass keels on the early 22's. Steel "plug" as mentioned above, inserted into a mold filled with resin to achieve the shape. I saw evidence of this on my keel when the laminate completely broke apart on me.

[JoeVacs]

Well......Sumner, ... I may have to retract ( pun ) my statement about my keel being ok. I went out for an exillerating sail on Wednesday afternoon. The wind was up very nicely around 15 to 20 knots. Me and my son went out and had a great sail. I did notice though , when I was moving nicely and heeled over everything was fine because the keel was wedged in the trunk, but if I was at an angle to the wind where I wasn't heeled over, but still moving briskly, my keel started fluttering. We could feel it and hear it under there going side to side rapidly, because of the turbulence that it was creating.
So I guess I will be pulling it out for the third time this fall to try and get some shape built into it. I never noticed it last year because I never had enough wind when I was able to get out there.

[Sumner]

Well............So I guess I will be pulling it out for the third time this fall to try and get some shape built into it. I never noticed it last year because I never had enough wind when I was able to get out there.

I wonder if it was 'stalling'? Well I sure you wanted something to do over the winter anyway . I wonder if someone that has the correct keel could make some cardboard templates of cross sections say every 4 inches or so from the top to the bottom and mail those to you to use. That might take a lot of guess work out of what the proper foil shape should be. I'd do it, but I'm sure your keel and our centerboard is different, but if it was about the same distance from the front leading edge to the trailing edge it just might be a good place to start. Ours is an Idasailor centerboard, but the factory one is suppose to be as good according to Idasailor.

Good luck and I'm sure you will document it for the next guy,

Sum

Our Trips to...

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

[JoeVacs]

I measured everything before I tore the keel apart to rebuilt it. The measurements are right the way I built it back. I just didn't get the sides built out into a foil shape and didn't bring the leading and trailing edges to a point. But, that will be my winter project....