CANAM 05' San Juan-Gulf Island Flotilla

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Interesting, particularly some of the statements in the FAQ.

Looks like NDI's overpriced monopoly has ended. To bad I needed and bought my set of Canadian charts last year and had to pay the overpriced $199 for the set from NDI. My US full set of large and small charts for Puget Sound and the San Juans was only $80.

Item 10 is also a very good comment to see. It states having the electronic version of the CHS charts on board MEETS the requirement for having charts on board. To me this means having paper duplicates in not a requirement.

[BK]

We rode our fold-up Dahons from Roache Harbor on San Juan Island to Friday Harbor. It was a good ride with only a couple of tough hills. On Montague, riding a bike is the only way around except for a bus that takes you to a bar at 5pm. Deer Harbor on Orca to the main town is a good bike ride but we took the bus as it went around the island for $10.

[Rob M]

I agree with BK, If there is a stop at Montague harbour I think biking around Galiano Island would be abetter choice.Now I have only wandered around the south end of Galiano, but I understand from others that Biking combined with hiking is even better as you can bike to the N end of the island and get a great view of Porlier Pass.

[eworthy]

Duane et al.

My proposal with route B was not to displace Duane's first effort but to offer an alternative. I think we can look forward to two anchor weekend locations then Macs going this way and that all throught the islands regrouping in Ganges.

I don't have answers to all the questions. ( I will re-read them later, I'm at my cottage and have limited online time).

I would not 'stopover' at Chemainus, the small craft harbour there is crowded and exposed. Boats should go to one of the Thetis Island Marinas and take the BC Ferry from there to Chemainus. One of the Thetis Marinas is much more upscale than the other (Can't remember which at the moment, the one with out the Pub as I recall). Those that want to anchor out can anchor in clam bay and go through the cut with there dinghies.

Neither Genoa nor Maple are 'destination locations'. Its more a matter of weather and currents through Sansom Narrows. Genoa has a small marina and a large bay for anchoring out. It is quiet and peace full.
To be honest I have not been to Maple Bay but my power squadron goes there regularly for one of their summer cruises and every one has a good time there.

Conover is small and so is the alternate anchorage on the Island. Macs can tuck in the corners of the cover where others couldn't go because it is too shallow. The whole flottilla could not go there at once. It would overpower the resources there.

Many of the smaller but wonderful places to visit could not take 30 plus boats at once. Hence the idea of multiple routes and anchor locations large enough to accomodate ALL of us. (like Ganges)

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Here is the alternate verision, which personally I think should be the primary and is a more interesting cruise. It crosses some chart boundaries so I had to use a smaller scale chart to show the whole thing. There's not as much detail in the chart. I'll make a couple separate pictures on larger scale charts so you can see more details. The route is from the American perspective starting at Washington Park in Anacortes.

Mileage is

Anacortes to Deer Harbor - 15.5 Nm
Deer Harbor to Stuart Island - 9.09 Nm
Stuart Island to Todd Inlet - 22.9 Nm
(Via Canoe Bay for Canadian Customs. This is shorter than Sidney)
Todd Inlet to Maple Bay - 17 Nm
Maple Bay to Telegraph Harbor - 14 Nm
Telegraph Harbor to Conover Cove - 8.47 Nm
Conover Cove to Montegue Harbor - 6.74 Nm
Montegue Harbor to Ganges Harbor - 7.1 Nm
Ganges Harbot To Winter Cove - 13.5 Nm
Winter Cove to Friday Harbor - 20.1 Nm
(Clear American Customs)
Friday Harbor to Anacortes - 15.6 Nm

For some reason the forum is forcing a reduction in the picture size.
Go to http://www.ddunn.org/Steve's%20Rendezvous.htm to see a bigger version. The route for each day alternates Red / Green.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

On the subject of canadian electronic charts that has been discussed here, I received a email from NDI today.

Further up this discussion links were posted to the CHS site where they indicated they are terminating the NDI agreement. NDI sent out this email in response to their registered customers.

NDI BUSINESS WILL CARRY ON, AND NDI CONTINUES TO SUPPORT ITS LICENCEES

St. John's, NL, Canada, January 9, 2005. Nautical Data International, Inc. ("NDI") has an ongoing agreement (the "Agreement") with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans ("DFO") - the Canadian Hydrographic Service ("CHS"). The Agreement gives NDI the sole worldwide right and license to use, and sublicense the use of, any data owned by Canada and maintained by the Canadian Hydrographic Service to produce Products and Product Updates, to integrate these Products with other products or services and to distribute them directly or through third party distributors and value added resellers.

A dispute has arisen between CHS and NDI, and DFO has purported to terminate the Agreement, but NDI has taken legal advice that the Agreement remains in full force and effect.

NDI remains committed to work with CHS and DFO to ensure continued distribution, services and support to Canadian boaters and users of the Canadian digital charts without interruption. Business will carry on, and NDI shall continue to support its licensees, distributors, dealers and customers.

NDI is the sole worldwide distributor of the official Canadian electronic navigation charts and other digital nautical information under a under a multi-year agreement with the Government of Canada. In partnership with the Canadian Hydrographic Service, NDI has successfully developed a comprehensive digital cartography database comprised of thousands of nautical charts and other marine information covering navigable Canadian waters and coastal zones.

A privately held Canadian company based in St. John's, Newfoundland, NDI distributes its CHS certified data products under the brand DigitalOcean for recreational boating, sports fishing, and commercial navigation purposes as well as for other non-navigation applications.

Nautical Data International, Inc.
Greg Mercer
Executive Vice President
email: [email protected]
phone: (709) 576-0634
[email protected]

Looks like the mess is headed to court. I wouldn't be surprised if the CHS action was forced by the industry heavyweights C-Map and Navionics who are being sued by NDI for refusing to pay their outragous royalties. Looks like some heavy lobbying has been done to eliminate the NDI monopoly.

[Moe]

Indeed... a mess. Thanks for posting that, Duane.

It's also on their website now.

--
Moe

[mgg4]

Stuart Island to Todd Inlet - 22.9 Nm
(Via Canoe Bay for Canadian Customs. This is shorter than Sidney)

I like the alternate route, but I'm concerned that 22.9 miles might be too far to make, given the fact that we would need to clear customs. If there is a hang up clearing, we could be delayed at Canoe Cove, which could put our arrival at Todd Inlet later in the day, and could result in us not finding a good place to achor.

I live in Brentwood, CA, and I have to admit that the thought of being able to momentarily tie up and get a picture at Brentwood Bay, BC is intriguing. Our local paper has a feature for people to take a picture with the Brentwood News in places all over the world. I know that if I had a picture with another "Brentwood" in it, it would get published. I just wish we could find a shorter day for those days when customs clearance is required. It's not that I'm paranoid, but I've heard horror stories. Likely it won't happen, but...

If I'm totally off-base here, I apologize. I'm just wondering what we would do in this case.

Anyway, here is a possible v3.1 plan (I apologize, I don't have distances. Perhaps Duane can plug this into his handy chart program and get the distances for us):

July 21 - Arrive Anacortes (Rig and launch)
July 22 - Arrive Deer Harbor
July 23 - Arrive Stuart Is
July 24 - Layover
July 25 - Arrive Sydney (Canadian Customs)
July 26 - Arrive Tod Inlet (via Brentwood Bay)
July 27 - Arrive Maple Bay
July 28 - Arrive Montague Harbour
July 29 - Arrive Ganges
July 30 - Layover
July 31 - Arrive Canoe Cove
Aug 01 - Arrive Friday Harbor (US Customs)
Aug 02 - Arrive Anacortes (Haul out and de-rig)

Does this sound doable? Is it a viable alternative?

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

In my experience up in the islands any days under 30 miles are easily done. A number of times we've done 40 and 50 plus days. Our longest last year was 58 Nm and that was probably a bit much at 7h23m under way. I know many are thinking sailing, but we're talking the end of July here, about the deadest time for wind you could pick. The best time for sunny weather however. You can expect the iron sail to get a good workout.

22 miles is 3 - 4 hours at our low cruising speed and 2 hours at our high cruising speed. Over the 23 days of our cruise up there last summer we averaged over 7 knots for the 502 miles we covered. None of this was blasting around at WOT. Looking back we only had two days out of the 23 where we traveled less than 20 miles (we did have 7 days where we went no where). On the day we cleared into Canada we covered 28 miles. We also had a leg this long in the 2003 Rendezvous and even the Mac 25 and 26 Classic cruising with us handled the distance in a resonable time.

I haven't looked at tides and currents yet, I would expect a start at a resonable time in the morning would have you touring the gardens at Butchart by early afternoon. Since it comes on the heels of a two day stopover getting a morning start shouldn't be a problem. Make sure you have all your documents in order and customs entering Canada is a simple process usually done over the phone. There's no guarantee, but I don't think there should be any problem.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Your post was updated as I was posting.

Maple to Montague is another 20+ day. Plus you are missing two of the best stops, Telegraph Harbor and Conover Cove. I also don't see any reason to go back to Canoe Cove after Ganges. It's an easier time getting to Friday Harbor if you go somewhere on North or South Pender such as Poets Cove or Otter Bay; or on Saturna such as Winter Cove. You avoid the larger more exposed Strait crossing by doing this.

I need to go back and look at my list. I think I may have put in one to many days.

Is it correct that we want the Ganges stop on Friday/Saturday nights? I think I put mine on Saturday/Sunday night like the Stuart Island one.

I based mine off the one 'eworthy' posted which had us arriving in Ganges on Saturday, not Friday.

Even so, out of the 3 stops at Telegraph, Conover, and Montague, I would drop the Montague one and go directly from Conover to Ganges.

Revised v3.0
July 21 - Arrive Anacortes (Rig and launch)
July 22 - Arrive Deer Harbor
July 23 - Arrive Stuart Is
July 24 - Layover
July 25 - Arrive Tod Inlet (via Brentwood Bay)
(Canadian Customs at Canoe Bay in route)
July 26 - Arrive Maple Bay
July 27 - Arrive Telegraph Harbor
July 28 - Arrive Conover Cove
July 29 - Arrive Ganges
July 30 - Layover
July 31 - Arrive Winter Cove (or Otter Bay or Poets Cove)
Aug 01 - Arrive Friday Harbor (US Customs)
Aug 02 - Arrive Anacortes (Haul out and de-rig)

As has been discussed before, I think we really just need to lock in the Stuart and the Ganges stops as the main functions, and provide a list of other possible stops people might want to consider. The route in between can be tailored to suit individual needs.

[eworthy]

As has been discussed before, I think we really just need to lock in the Stuart and the Ganges stops as the main functions, and provide a list of other possible stops people might want to consider. The route in between can be tailored to suit individual needs.

I agree with this approach. I also believe that the Saturday Night in each location should be considered the official 'event'. That means you can arrive the day of or the evening before and still feel included.

The proposed layover at Stuart on the 24 may not be to everyone's taste. Those worried about distances or customs could use that as a travel day and move to one of the marinas/parks in the Sydney area and spend the day in this delightful (bookish) town.

With respect to Ganges, my personal travel plans would likely mean arriving in Ganges the morning of the 30th having anchored out a one of the local islands. Spend the day in the market and the afternoon / evening with the group in the marina.

Those that have never been there might want to spend extra time in Ganges enjoying 1967 (the summer of love) all over again. The bike riders amoung us may not like Saltspring. It has many good roads and several superb destinations to ride to but the roads are narrow and Saltspring being the most populated of the Gulf Islands has lots of road traffic making some stretches unpleasant for bikers.
For Bikers the orignal plan of a stay at Fulford Harbour may be better as the South (Mt. Maxwell, for the tough) and Southeast sections (Ruckle Park) of the Island are very scenic.

Check out some views of the Island at:
http://www.saltspringtoday.com/virtual_tours.htm

Rick Worthy, mycbc
26X, Seaworthy

[mgg4]

I also agree with the major events being the two-day stops, with flexibility in between. I also know that my wife believes in the safety of numbers. She is not adventurous, and it is still going to take a great deal of convincing to get her to come along. I was trying to come up with a concensus, because I will probably end up tagging along with a larger group with more local knowledge than I have.

--Mark

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

How about this,

1 . Two main events, the evenings of July 23rd at Stuart and July 30th in Ganges.

2. Two planned two night stays for those who want more time as a group, July 23 and 24th at Stuart, July 29th and 30th at Ganges (we will have to get a group marina reservation for this very soon, are you out there Steve?). It's always is nice to have a couple days where you don't move the boat.

3. And a planned group tour, mainly for the boats starting in the US who prefer a group outing. This would be led by Steve with perhaps a few of us locals assisting him. Canadian boats of course could join in along the way as well but I would guess very few of you will be starting from Anacortes. Any thoughts on the revised v3.0 I posted above?

4. And finally, a list of suggested stops for those not from up here to choose from if they wish to venture out on their own at some point.

If we can get this nailed down I'll post the 4 variants at my website with charts. I'll also take a look at what the tides and currents are going to be on the various passages as far as timing goes. I'll also publish a suggested equipment list similar to the one I did two years ago.

I'd like to start to get the names of those planning on attending. Post here your first and last name, boat name, boat type, and the city and state/province you are coming from. I think when people on the fence start to see how great this event can be we will get a lot more interest.

Duane Dunn
Allegro, 26x
Bellevue, Wa

[Tom Spohn]

Duane,
Count us in.

Tom and Jean Spohn
2004 M "Andromeda"
Tacoma Wa.

We plan to be biking at least a day or two and will have our dog, Neptune along. Haven't decided whether to start early and motor up from Tacoma, or to launch from Anacortes.

Happy to help out wherever we can.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I picked up the 2005 reference table for my Tides and Currents atlas and took a look at what we would be facing during the trip.

Ideally we would want flood current during the transit from Anacortes into the San Juans, and the first few days with westerly and northerly passages. Then we want Ebb currents for the southerly return part of the trip.

I'm assuming the prefered passage time will be around the 9am to 2pm time frame.

Early in the week starting July 23 we would be faced with ebb currents against us on the west and north passages. Then later in the week as we turn south we begin to face flood currents.

Specifically:

July 21 - Arrive Anacortes (Rig and launch)
July 22 - Arrive Deer Harbor Current is against until 13:00h
July 23 - Arrive Stuart Is Current is with until 14:00h
July 24 - Layover
July 25 - Arrive Tod Inlet Current is against until 13:00h
(Canadian Customs at Canoe Bay in route)
July 26 - Arrive Maple Bay Current is against in Sansum Narrows. Slack in Sansum Narrows is at 08:42, peak ebb at 11:48, Slack at 15:49.
July 27 - Arrive Telegraph Harbor Current is against after 12:00
July 28 - Arrive Conover Cove Current is against until 14:00
July 29 - Arrive Ganges Current is against until 14:00
July 30 - Layover
July 31 - Arrive Winter Cove (or Otter Bay or Poets Cove) Current is against until 13:00, (against all day for Poets Cove)
Aug 01 - Arrive Friday Harbor (US Customs) Current is against after 10:00
Aug 02 - Arrive Anacortes (Haul out and de-rig) Current is with until 01:00

As you can see this is not good, more fuel, more time, very slow sailing in what will likely be light winds. For the most part these are 1-2 knot currents.

If we were to shift everything a week later the currents become much more favorable, plus we are at a time with much smaller tide changes so the overall currents are less.

Or, we could go the other direction.

Such as:

July 21 - Arrive Anacortes (Rig and launch)
July 22 - Arrive Deer Harbor Current is against until 13:00h
July 23 - Arrive Ganges Current is against until 13:00h
(Canadian Customs at Bedwell)
July 24 - Layover
July 25 - Arrive Conover Cove Current is against until 14:00h
July 26 - Arrive Telegraph Harbor Current is with all day
July 27 - Arrive Maple Bay Current is with after 12:00
July 28 - Arrive Tod Inlet Current is with after 11:00 Sansum Narrows slack before ebb at 11:20.
July 29 - Arrive Stuart Current is against until 15:00
(US Customs at Roche Harbor)
July 30 - Layover
July 31 - Arrive Garrison Bay (English Camp) Current is with after 11:00
Aug 01 - Arrive Friday Harbor Current is against after 11:00
Aug 02 - Arrive Anacortes (Haul out and de-rig) Current is with until 01:00

Not a huge improvement but a little better. Just for fun I'll look at the week later ones in a bit.

Comments please.