Reefing Time

[phil kelly]

Generally asking-At what wind speed would our Mac x sailors feel the need to reef flying a standard jib and mainsail.
I put a reef in at anything above 10 MPH, Am I a scaredcat ?

[ROAD Soldier]

Generally asking-At what wind speed would our Mac x sailors feel the need to reef flying a standard jib and mainsail.
I put a reef in at anything above 10 MPH, Am I a scaredcat ?

No you are just starting out. Time and experience and lying to your Admiral saying everything is under control will allow you to increase that threshold further. I used to ease my sheets when ever my heel angle got about 10 degrees now I don't even bat an eye until 30 degrees.

[pokerrick1]

40 degrees - - - when you're bracing your feet against the face of the opposite cockpit seat in order to stay in the boat - - - now you're talking

Rick

PS But I didn't get that foolhardy overnight - - - it took awhile

[bartmac]

Is one of the determinants also boat speed ie the spilling of wind by the heel of the boat will actually slow you down.......a flat boat is a fast boat???Except for cats where the lifting of one hull out of the water will decrease friction.When racing small boats we always attempted to keep hulls as flat as possible by leaning,trapeze and various other means of counteracting the wind.We used to sail a class called VJ....basically a hull the size of 2 surfboards,2 planks which slid from one side to the other and sh~t loads of sail.Your bum would be on the end of the curved plank and your feet on the edge of the hull.....planing with at least 1/2 the boat out of the water...skipping along at high speed

[restless]

optimal heel for boat speed is less the a wimpy 25. Still.. who cares about the speed?? Sometimes it is quite a buzz to push the limits a bit..

[bartmac]

There are other considerations....like the boss......isn't comfortable with water spilling into the cockpit and considering she sleeps in the same bed for the moment.....I will temper my enthusiasm and limit my more adventurous exploits without her.There's always a blast on the duke or a landsailer

[dennisneal]

You know you should have reefed about five minutes ago when all of the loose stuff in the cabin starts flying around and the Admiral climbs the ladder with a disturbed look on her face.

[pokerrick1]

optimal heel for boat speed is less the a wimpy 25. Still.. who cares about the speed?? Sometimes it is quite a buzz to push the limits a bit..

EXACTIMA

Rick

[markdartist]

Flying my Doyle jib and full batten mainsail to wind, I reef when the boat is consistently heeled over 30 degrees because the Mac makes too much leeway.

I don’t have an anemometer, but a good rule of thumb is that when white caps begin to blow up on flat water with no current, the wind speed is around 12 knots. Full main and jib work well at that wind speed, but adjustments to sail trim such as moving the jib cars back and pulling the mainsail flat with the outhaul and tight halyard, help ease heeling and maintain speed. When white caps are numerous and wind speed is 18 or so knots, it’s generally time to reef the main. With the first reef in, sailing is comfortable upwind to about 22 knots. As the wind gets stronger, the Mac’s light weight and high freeboard becomes more of a problem than sail configuration, so if time is an issue, fire up the 50.

I had a second reef point added to my main for ‘survival sailing‘. Hope to never need it!

Of course, if your destination is downwind, a bit of headsail can really get the boat moving. With a 30 knot tailwind and a bit of headsail (main covered), I once hit a pinch over 9 knots SOG.

Have fun with your boat. When setup with correct mast rake, rig tension and properly ballasted, the Mac is perfectly safe to sail at extreme heel angles. There are plenty of member photos and videos on this site to prove it. If you get too far over, the boat will round up, head to wind and stand up. Just expect to have a cabin cleanup job waiting below deck!

[Laika 26X]

A simple question with as many answers as sailors. (Who wants to hear that!)

My rule of thumb, with all current conditions taken into account, I adhere to the following as mentioned by several well known sailors in articles I've seen written:

"When the Rudder angle exceeds 10 degrees for extended periods of time, the vessel should be reefed. This will reduce drag, strain, as well as maintain or even increase speed, and keep her on her feet."

With my kingpost on the helm, I know right off when I'm meeting/exceeding that rudder angle for extended periods. I just do it at that point without having to second guess myself.
It's automatic on all points of sail without me having to guess. Wile I may not reef because I'm running wing on wing in 20kt winds, I certainly will when I come about to a reach/beat and my rudder tells me to.

Always seems to work for me, on every boat I had. It just aids my comfort level in decision making as well as LAIKA's handling.

"Sub" Ed Tordahl
S/V LAIKA
USCG Auxiliary
Qualified Crew
Qualified Aids (Nav) Verifier
Qualified Public Education Instructor
NYS Qualified Safe Boating Instructor

[Highlander]

Now thats interesting will have to check that one out !

J

[vizwhiz]

seems to make sense to me...large rudder angles means yer counteracting large forces, and the larger the angle, the more drag yer making too (losing efficiency)...hmmm...would like to hear more feedback on this idea!

[Phil M]

My rule of thumb, with all current conditions taken into account, I adhere to the following as mentioned by several well known sailors in articles I've seen written:

"When the Rudder angle exceeds 10 degrees for extended periods of time, the vessel should be reefed. This will reduce drag, strain, as well as maintain or even increase speed, and keep her on her feet."

The rudder angle? Does anyone know what the rudder angle is referring to? The heel is the amount of leaning angle. I have a device for measuring the heel that looks something like this.



Phil M

[phil kelly]

Surely this is transom to rudder angle ?

[Laika 26X]

Rudder angle is not the same term used for heeling (roll angle).

Rudder Angle:
(engineering) The acute angle between a ship or plane's rudder and its fore-and-aft line.

When a rudder is amidships (in line fore and aft), it is said to have "Zero Rudder"

FWIW,
Rudder Commands from the OOD, Master, Pilot, Captain, or whatever... are given to the helmsman (Helmperson for the politically correct) in degrees. The helmdude (for the bohemian) would turn the rudder to the desired angle. IE OOD "Left 10 degress rudder". Helmsaman's response, "Left 10 degrees rudder, aye". Though I'm sure most Recreational boaters don't parrot (repeat) commands, you get the picture of rudder angles. My crew and I do parrot commands so we have a clear understanding of communication. But I never get the aye!!

With respect to the thread, unless you've done a rudder angle indicator mod, you need to turn the wheel until the rudders are at approx 10 deg angle, and just note where your king post is. I'm sure it varies with steering type and even boat to boat.

When my kingpost is approx 110 deg left or right of top dead center, I'm about there.

Again what’s nice about this…it takes the “When should I reef??" guesswork out of the equation for me. I just do it when I have that helm over a ¼ turn of the way for extended periods.

"Sub" Ed Tordahl
S/V LAIKA
USCG Auxiliary
Qualified Crew
Qualified Aids (Nav) Verifier
Qualified Public Education Instructor
NYS Qualified Safe Boating Instructor