Roger's next boat (hopefully)

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

International sales are actually a big part of Rogers total sales. His daughter runs the international distribution group. Her needs are the main reason you won't see a 28' mac. Two 26' boat on their trailers without wheels are the biggest you can fit in a 40' overseas shipping container. Any bigger and he doubles his shipping costs overseas.

[Divecoz]

He has accomplished what he set out to do. To Sell a lot of New Boats .
He has built his boats so the present and previous owners do quite the sales job FOR HIM
He made just the right changes from the X to the newest M that was reason enough for us to go from lookers to owners. The X just didn't do it for us, nice boat but not to our liking. We could and did find a LOT of X's for sale and we could have saved an easy $10,000.00 by buying a lightly used X . But after going to Bills and getting ON a new M, we were sold . . .if we were going to be sold at all.
Here is another plus but Roger had nothing to do with it.
BILL @boats 4 sail. Of all the sales people we have dealt with over the years when purchasing big ticket toys we liked BILL right off , cannot say that about the rest. . .most were toooo pushy.

[Pouw Geuzebroek]

Two 26' boat on their trailers without wheels are the biggest you can fit in a 40' overseas shipping container. Any bigger and he doubles his shipping costs overseas

That is not entirely true Duane, Look at the factory site. Within the US they ship 2 Macs in a 48' container, but oversees they ship only 1 Mac in a 40' container. So there should not be a major increase in shipping cost overseas, even if they have to switch from 40' to 48' containers. But you have a point, in shipping within the US, if two 28 foot Macs will not fit in a 48 foot container
http://www.macgregor26.com/shipping.htm

[waternwaves]

Pouw

All the more reason for Roger to finally produce a 34-36 footer, along the lines of a 26X+8 (=34) the mast will still fit with the boat in the 40 ft container, Or I will drive to CA to pick it up.... and finally get a mac with a salon with windows I can see out of....where the cockpit is now....and then append a new cockpit aft/berth in the back 8 ft. Now we have a boat that wont be 65 ft long... but is truly useable in all weather, unrestricted without flags, pilots, or daylight only in the US in all except the following states which dont allow an 8 1/2 ft. unpermitted load.

Alabama, Arizona, DC, Georgia, Illinois, Kentucky, maryland, louisiana, michigan, Tennesee, West Virginia....
(Source digest of motor laws AAA)

I mean really, alabama allows 10 ft wide cotton wagons....but not boats at 8 1/2???


I guess I need to get my wish in early for christmas here......lol

where is that sawzall......

[Frank C]

I always thought the idea of reduced shipping costs (2 boats per container) had little-to-no applicability to a larger, more expensive boat. Agree w/ Darren, a 34' Mac powersailer (or maybe a 32' trailerable) would be the perfect trade up boat. And I don't think the towing permit is a big deal - it is pretty much issued automatically - lot's of powerboaters are towing 9' wide loads. But for how many buyers?

Well, if there are 6000 owners extent, and 2000 of them are active, then maybe 500 buyers are a strong looky-loo market? But wait ... the new boat will sell in the range of $30k to 35k, before power. Add $15k for the outboard. Oops - maybe that $50k price tag cuts the strong market by half? ... leaving 250 serious tire-kickers?

Guess Roger's dilemma is whether he wants to build 50 boats a month using a cookie cutter, or complicate his life with a new production line for only 10 more boats per month, growth potential to 20 boats per month. Hmmmm ... if Roger is thinkin' retirement, bet he just doesn't want the headaches.

[Moe]

If you're looking at a 36' boat that's proportionally skinny as a 26' Mac, you're talkin' about an 11' beam. And that's even if you're only going to carry as proportionally little sail as the 26' Mac.

[on edit] You're also talkin' 200-250HP to get it on (a full) plane.
--
Moe

[Catigale]

I havent done a detailed business analysis but my guess is a > 26 foot model volume falls

My next boat will be used - having spent several years on the water and now learning from all the sailors I know I will certainly let my next boat depreciation be paid for by someone else.

Just to give you an idea I sailed a 32 foot Ericson for delivery which sold in concours condition for 17k

My dream liveon boat right now is a Morgan 45 on Lake Ontario.....that will be a few years away...

Catigale

[waternwaves]

moe, I havent looked at the numbers to go to 36, just a 34 with a salon,, and waterplane area of about 2.2 times the the area of a 26, most of the volume above the waterline.., 2900- 3100 hundred ballast, total weight in the range of 3000 dry on the top end. would like to make it lower with only part of the transom full thickness , and using a 175 hp etec,

Rogers beam on the 65 (per boat trader) is only 12 ft... so I started figuring with a 9 ft beam, on the 34

problem is no perfect powerplant at 175 hp....

so with etec
one would have to go with 200 to 250 hp....all the same weight at 516 lbs,, so

at this time the perfect engine for that size boat does not really exist yet...

suzi 200 weighs 580

Merc 200 weighs ^ 600

yamaha 200 weighs 583


so it seems that this would be a boat still waiting for a motor. and the transom is going to be considerably reinforced

many many pencil sketches on this... but outfitting such a boat with an appropriate mast, ballast system, trailer..` transom etc....would be very spendy in this size range..... ahhhhh what a fun thought project....on a snowy cold winter night....

[craiglaforce]

Water and waves,
How about a jet ski motor? I am not at all familiar with them but they seem to have big lightweight motors. Plus I'm trying to remember all the possible uses for a giant water jet pump besides pushing the boat. With some creative piping, it could put out boat fires, wash off the foredeck, dredge the marina channel, repel boarders and jet skis, act as the worlds biggest bilge pump if holed...
maybe even an entire purpose built jet ski could be docked and locked in place securely to act as powerplant. Then detached in transformer style to serve dinghy/toy duty.
The other option on the larger boat would be to jsut forget about planing it.
Don't forget, hull speed goes up a bit anyway just due to the waterline increase.

[waternwaves]

other than the 20 to 25 percent loss in horsepower delivered at the transom for any jet drive..lol

The thing is.... larger trailerable boats exist than the 26's, and it seems like a perfect (read long overdue ) idea....(plus I would hope for interior height large enough for me to stand up straight instead of the macgregor crouch)

I was entertained by the thought of 250 tire kickers.and maybe 250 buyers....... but.... I thought the number was a little high...

and I note.. the number of boats in the 30 + range... is the largest growth segment other than inflatables.....

But really... good ideas...sell well on their own.... and somehow I doubt BWY would have any trouble selling a dozen a year...

But someone will offer it sometime.... it is just too good of an idea....

I know I want one.... but I already have too many boats.....lol (is that possible) But the day that a high speed motorsailor of 34 to 38 ft comes out.... and is built like a mac, you can bet I will be trying it....that is about as big as I can do single handed anyway. When that 34 to 38 footer comes out... then my kids will get the old boats.....lol

And though craigs comments might have been a little tongue in cheek...I just cant go for a larger boat that cannot get anywhere in a reasonable time.... those of us that still work for a living fit a motor sailor that cruises well... When I am retired.....then I'll think about a regular sailboat....(probably not very long tho). and Craig is also right ... i have probably expressed the desire for a larger mac too often...and bored some on here..lol

well, enough of the trying to cajole our favorite boat builder...

but someone will build that larger high performance motorsailor, maybe even out of aluminum.. who knows....but it is coming.

[craiglaforce]

I wasn't making fun of a larger mac. far from it. I always look at the photos of the mega 30 trailerables and wonder why the mac can't be at least that size. I think that little bit of extra room could make a huge improvement in comfort. And the head room could be dramatically better.

A number of people have posted thoughts about a jet drive. I've heard about lashing a dingy alongside to use its outboard as emergency propulsion. Just taking this concept a bit further to suggest it might be possible to have a purpose built jet ski that could be driven into a slot on the back of the boat and somehow latched securely into place to serve as the main motor.
Sometimes if you can adapt something that is already being mass produced, you get a highly cost effective and sometimes better solution. If it saves the cost and hassle associated with a regular inflatable dink and motor, along with the cost of the main boat motor, it might be a good idea.

And this would open up flexibilty options. You could still have a small outboard on the main boat and leave the jet ski at home when going on a long. leisurely cruise with good gas mileage or hook it up for high speed outings. If you want to have dinner at that nice restaurant on the other side of the lake or bay, but don't want the hassle of raising anchor and making your way over there, just undock the jet ski and zip over there in a couple of minutes. Easier to find a parking place too.


Well maybe I was having a bit of fun with differnt uses for a high powered water pump once it was aboard.

[Mac]

Just adding to Moe's revised interior bow layout idea...how about a circa 90 degree vertical drop of of the bow to resemble that of the new generation Dufour-type yachts increasingly popular in Europe.

At the bow-berth level on the inside, would that allow for a slight lengthening of the V berth (with it being wide for a longer stretch forward) ?

Interesting idea about shifting the dinette seat forward Moe...it delivers a real functional benefit by allowing the Starboard side of the V berth to be extended allowing a longer practical berth.

Moe, any chance you might be able to work your magic to let folk see how a vertical-drop bow might add to the interior of the V berth ?
(i.e. a comparison one above the other of the standard slanted bow MacM along with a dreadnought-look MacM ?

[Mac]

Many thanks Moe...that's exactly what I was getting at.

Clearly MacGregor has focussed on maximising the useable space at the back-end of the boat with the 2005M...maybe next time out it's time for a bow-rework to also maximise usable space.

Your suggested placing of the forward dinette seat could look pretty persuasive now.

[Divecoz]

The Jet Ski Idea
Has already come and gone not many seem to have been sold and you can pick them up now pretty cheap when you se them on the boards . That tells me they didnt work as well as hoped for. IMHO

[Pouw Geuzebroek]

Why do we stick to an outboard? We can probably put a nice >100 Hp diesel inboard engine with saildrive in the rear bed area. This bed is very wide, I think you can reduce it to two smaller berths with the engine in between. Also reduce the size of the waterbalast tank under that rear bed to make easier installation of the thru hull saildrive. The weight of this engine will compensate for the loss of waterbalast. Removing the outboard gives also the possibility for a real swimming platform or the by so many of us wanted 'garage' for the dinghy.