Small generators

[Gypsy]

On outboard vs generator fuel consumption - I make it the HONDA gen would be 2x efficient or less.....based on:

1. Charge curve for Mercury BF

his is an old thread but I found my Merc 50 HP Bigfoot manual with the following alternator charge curve - the charge curve is highly asymptotic as given by the following table

RPM output in Amps
Idle 0
800 8
1000 12
1500 16
2000 18
3000 19

>> Use 1500 rpm, 12 V * 16 Amps - 6 amps overhead means 120 Watts charging capacity....


2. ...From JamesV smartcraft data, he reports

I have the Mer 50hp Bigfoot 4 stroke, 14 x 10 prop. Not quite yours but it might help

5 mph - 12 to 16 mpg

or about 2.5-3 hours per gallon fuel burn under load. You could probably put 220 Watt-hours of charge into your batteries per gallon of gas this way. The HONDA EU1000 is rated at about 1/2 of this fuel consumption. The Mercury might even be close to this just under alternator load.

So my guess/estimate was close . About 1/2 or better the effiency of a generator . But factor the $1,000 for a generator , and all the inconvience of them , and you come out about the same .
The gas mileage would be a hard one to figure . I average better than 10mpg at 2,000 rpm , if I idle her at 1500 rpm with no load that would have to equate to around 20mpg or better (another guess/estimate)

[Retcoastie]

We have had a Honda 2000 for about ten years. We bought it while camping. It worked very well for that purpose. Now that we have the boat, we still carry it in the van but have never used it on the boat in the water. It is economical and quiet enough to run in a campground with out alarming the neighbors. It may be a bit much in a quiet anchorage.
While sailing our load is not that great even with an autopilot. Running the engine to anchor and get underway in the morning provides adequate recharging.
We do use the boat as a camper and when doing that we use the 2000 to power the van, (it has an electric refrigerator) and a Xantrex charger on our . Last two years in Florida it was really handy to run electric heaters inside her. I have added 130W solar panel to the van and 30W solar to the boat. If Florida is halfway warm this winter I hope to get by without using the 2000 at all.
I use it here on the farm to run electric tools away from the shop. It is a backup for the house. One time when we had a houseful of guests for a dinner, the power went out at the start of preperation. The better half completed a fine dinner on a two burner hot plate powered by the 2000. It runs my sump pumps if I'm here and the power goes.
We picked the 2000 over the 1000 to be sure we could run everything (say rooftop air conditioner). My son has a much larger camper with two A/Cs and he hooks two 2000s together to power his unit.
My guess is, unless you are expecting to use A/C or heaters on you boat, you do not need any noise maker.

[DaveB]

Ken,
We are expecting temps 31 degrees tonight in SW Florida. I plan on having two Granite 4x6 inch blocks over the Butane stove on our Keys trip. This will allow good temps in cabin and will last long time after we turn the stove off and tucked in our warm berths. That's if we have a cold cruise.
I have a 1200 watt Gen. 2 cycle that powers a 5000 BTU air condition $139 at Northern Tools but it's 2 cycle and db is 68 compared to 59 on Honda 2000.
The unit will recharge my house Batteries at 10 amps with my built in Auto10 amp charger and also can use same time to charge starter battery Thur 12 volt plug @ 6amp.
I don't think I will bring it along on our New Year trip as we will be only out for 6 days and the 2 house batteries should keep the frig. cold and all our elect. needs if we run outboard after 4-5 days.
What I really need is that Ivory fret at the neck on my Guitar so I can Jam with you.
Dave

We have had a Honda 2000 for about ten years. We bought it while camping. It worked very well for that purpose. Now that we have the boat, we still carry it in the van but have never used it on the boat in the water. It is economical and quiet enough to run in a campground with out alarming the neighbors. It may be a bit much in a quiet anchorage.
While sailing our load is not that great even with an autopilot. Running the engine to anchor and get underway in the morning provides adequate recharging.
We do use the boat as a camper and when doing that we use the 2000 to power the van, (it has an electric refrigerator) and a Xantrex charger on our . Last two years in Florida it was really handy to run electric heaters inside her. I have added 130W solar panel to the van and 30W solar to the boat. If Florida is halfway warm this winter I hope to get by without using the 2000 at all.
I use it here on the farm to run electric tools away from the shop. It is a backup for the house. One time when we had a houseful of guests for a dinner, the power went out at the start of preperation. The better half completed a fine dinner on a two burner hot plate powered by the 2000. It runs my sump pumps if I'm here and the power goes.
We picked the 2000 over the 1000 to be sure we could run everything (say rooftop air conditioner). My son has a much larger camper with two A/Cs and he hooks two 2000s together to power his unit.
My guess is, unless you are expecting to use A/C or heaters on you boat, you do not need any noise maker.

[Gypsy]

For years on our Cabin Cruiser we used a Coleman Catalytic heater . These propane powered heaters are safe to sleep with . If not your kids will own Coleman , because they advertise them as safe .

They will run all night on less than a green disposable bottle of propane and keep the cabin , if not toasty , then comfortable enough.

We used to put up all the canvas and enclose the cockpit /stern area and put a standard propane heater back there . In the cabin we fired up the catalytic heater . All our living space would then be toasty for the evening .
Come bedtime we shutoff the standard propane off and left just the catalytic on.

We have also used it in our camper van , and haven't woke up dead yet ! (I don't think)

A catalytic beats the hull out of a generator !

[DaveB]

Gypsy,
You don't want to use them when you are not awake in a closed cabin.Propane,Butane is heavier than air and if a leak happens you may be in a Carbon Monoxide filled cabin, you also need fresh air as fuel eats up oxygen in the cabin.
If your tank is outside cabin in a air tight box that has over drain leak system and have proper hookup with Air detection system than yes you can do so with a detector for Carbon Monoxide.
Dave

For years on our Cabin Cruiser we used a Coleman Catalytic heater . These propane powered heaters are safe to sleep with . If not your kids will own Coleman , because they advertise them as safe .

They will run all night on less than a green disposable bottle of propane and keep the cabin , if not toasty , then comfortable enough.

We used to put up all the canvas and enclose the cockpit /stern area and put a standard propane heater back there . In the cabin we fired up the catalytic heater . All our living space would then be toasty for the evening .
Come bedtime we shutoff the standard propane off and left just the catalytic on.

We have also used it in our camper van , and haven't woke up dead yet ! (I don't think)

A catalytic beats the hull out of a generator !

[Québec 1]

This is what I am getting for my boat
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... 9&id=48897
Q1

[nedmiller]

We have the Honda eu1000i and am extremely happy with it. We only have a 65 watt solar panel and spend most nights at anchor. We have converted lights to LED but run and Engel refrigerator and use the generator if the solar panel can't keep up. The eu1000i was purchased after hours of research and comparing--including going to the store and carrying both the 1000i and 2000i around for a bit! It is true that the 2000 might be a better choice for a back up house generator since you can run most things that plug into a common household outlet with the 2000. They are the same noise level. For the Mac, having the smaller 1000 was a better choice for me because it is lighter and smaller and I've been able to buy appliances for the boat that the 1000 will power. That includes a microwave, toaster, and even an air conditioner. Each of these had to be chosen with great care--tested several ACs before I found one that would work. Appliances can only be run one at a time but that has never created an issue. We don't use them that often--most cooking is done on the Origo Alcohol stove or the Magma grill. We heat with a Wallas--which only takes a tiny bit of electricity to run the fan and brings in outside air for combustion--then is vented to the outside.

The generator is very quiet and we mount it on top of the outboard (idea from this board) which keeps down the vibration. If the AC is on, you really can't hear the generator outside.
The Honda 1000i ends up not being a bad back up for the house either. During an ice storm last year, the 1000 ran the big kitchen refrigerator/freezer to keep things from thawing, then powered lights and charged computers at night. Be careful with a cheap generator if you expect to run electronics-computers or microwaves. The Honda produces a clean sine wave and you want that!
SILK

[DaveB]

Alcohol is bad, Just take a 8 inch round clay pot 6 inches high, load it with Lava Rock and weed, set on your single Burner stove with closed cabin and you will sleep nice and cozy.
Don't forget to turn off the burner before bed time. heat will last at least 4 hrs...the weed..who knows.
Dave

This is what I am getting for my boat
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... 9&id=48897
Q1

[DaveB]

Silk,
Sometimes a 1200 Watt Generator comes in handy for $139. and if left with fuel in tank or decides to take a dive one is only out $139 compared to $1000 for a 2000 Honda.
This powers my 5100 btu AC with ease plus interor lighting in SW Florida.
Picture is with the Gen. on my Potter 19, notice all 4 rubber legs. Noise is 68 dba compared to Honda 59 dba.

There are cheaper options for those who don't use a generator often and cost effective.
Dave

We have the Honda eu1000i and am extremely happy with it. We only have a 65 watt solar panel and spend most nights at anchor. We have converted lights to LED but run and Engel refrigerator and use the generator if the solar panel can't keep up. The eu1000i was purchased after hours of research and comparing--including going to the store and carrying both the 1000i and 2000i around for a bit! It is true that the 2000 might be a better choice for a back up house generator since you can run most things that plug into a common household outlet with the 2000. They are the same noise level. For the Mac, having the smaller 1000 was a better choice for me because it is lighter and smaller and I've been able to buy appliances for the boat that the 1000 will power. That includes a microwave, toaster, and even an air conditioner. Each of these had to be chosen with great care--tested several ACs before I found one that would work. Appliances can only be run one at a time but that has never created an issue. We don't use them that often--most cooking is done on the Origo Alcohol stove or the Magma grill. We heat with a Wallas--which only takes a tiny bit of electricity to run the fan and brings in outside air for combustion--then is vented to the outside.

The generator is very quiet and we mount it on top of the outboard (idea from this board) which keeps down the vibration. If the AC is on, you really can't hear the generator outside.
The Honda 1000i ends up not being a bad back up for the house either. During an ice storm last year, the 1000 ran the big kitchen refrigerator/freezer to keep things from thawing, then powered lights and charged computers at night. Be careful with a cheap generator if you expect to run electronics-computers or microwaves. The Honda produces a clean sine wave and you want that!
SILK

[nedmiller]

Dave,

No argument from me on using an inexpensive generator for AC or lighting. They certainly have their advantages. The admiral wanted something quiet. She loves the 4 stroke Bigfoot for that reason, too. Since decibels are a logarithmic unit, a change of 10 db is twice as loud and the Honda was the quietest machine that I found. When I tested others, they just seem too loud. We can talk in the cockpit with the Honda running. I also wanted to feel comfortable charging computers, etc. so the pure sine wave was important to me.

SILK

[bobaefa]

Dave,
I am tracking on the Weed part but the Lava Rocks? So you take a clay flower pot and fill it with lave rocks from the gas grille and allow the pot with lava rocks to heat over the burner and it retains heat? That sounds like a really good idea. What is the issue with alchol burner heater? Looks like it is a small heater you could keep on the boat and use it when you need it.

Alcohol is bad, Just take a 8 inch round clay pot 6 inches high, load it with Lava Rock and weed, set on your single Burner stove with closed cabin and you will sleep nice and cozy.
Don't forget to turn off the burner before bed time. heat will last at least 4 hrs...the weed..who knows.
Dave

This is what I am getting for my boat
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... 9&id=48897
Q1

[bobaefa]

No idea what a Sine wave is but I understand that electricity can play havoc on computers and blackberries. The cheap model that was posted earlier
DP1250i 1250W Digital Generators w Free Shipping ( Refurbished, sold as it is) $199.99 has the following under the FAQ section. Does this sound like one that is Sine Wave OK?

Digital Inverter Generator & AVR generator.

Most regular generator on the market would be with AVR (automatic voltage regulator) to adjust voltage in +/- 5% base on the load of generator.

All DuroPower Generator have AVR except Digital inverter generator (DP1000i/DP1250i/DP2000i/DP3000Ei) & PMM diesel generator (DP6500ED/EDS, DP7500ED/EDS).


Digital inverter generator would be a high tech generator, we use a digital inverter change AC from alternator to DC then digital control the RPM of the engine base on the load of generator then change from DC to AC again to provide a true sine –super clean power ( +/-3%).


Digital inverter generator have three special things than regular generator:

1) Super clean power – Voltage: +/-3%, THD < 3%.

2) Super quiet operation : <58dB.

3) Super fuel saving: around 50%.

(Base on regular generator with same wattage)

PMM alternator would be a special material called Permanent Magnetic Material (PMM).

This kind of alternator could provide +/- 3% vibration of voltage directly & keep long time no change.

[Gypsy]

Gypsy,
You don't want to use them when you are not awake in a closed cabin.Propane,Butane is heavier than air and if a leak happens you may be in a Carbon Monoxide filled cabin, you also need fresh air as fuel eats up oxygen in the cabin.
If your tank is outside cabin in a air tight box that has over drain leak system and have proper hookup with Air detection system than yes you can do so with a detector for Carbon Monoxide.
Dave

For years on our Cabin Cruiser we used a Coleman Catalytic heater . These propane powered heaters are safe to sleep with . If not your kids will own Coleman , because they advertise them as safe .

They will run all night on less than a green disposable bottle of propane and keep the cabin , if not toasty , then comfortable enough.

We used to put up all the canvas and enclose the cockpit /stern area and put a standard propane heater back there . In the cabin we fired up the catalytic heater . All our living space would then be toasty for the evening .
Come bedtime we shutoff the standard propane off and left just the catalytic on.

We have also used it in our camper van , and haven't woke up dead yet ! (I don't think)

A catalytic beats the hull out of a generator !

A catalytic like what i am talking about runs on a green disposable bottle . One of these bottles does not contain enough propane to be overly dangerous if it suddenly decided to start leaking . The heaters are advertised as safe for enclosed places , like cabins or tents . We have used this heater for years in our van and boat .

I have never read of anyone dying from carbon monoxide poisioning from a catalytic heater. Every year many people die from generators . A catalytic heater burns very little oxygen and our cabins are not exactly airtight.
A friend and coworker installed a catalytic wall heater in his VW camper van . Last winter , in our travels with the organization we were working for , we spent many nights in his van with this heater running . Everybody knows the rep of a VW , how airtight they are. Nobody woke up dead.

[Fred Rio]

Just as an FYI the E-Tecs charge the battery even at idle - according to the manual at idle they produce 3 - 5 amps.

[Catigale]

You have to deduct the computer power overhead from that 5 Amps...(or 60 Watts). That is a hard number to even SWAG, but I deducted 6 amps from the calc above for a Four stroke....im guessing a 2 stroke is 1/2 that because 4 strokes/2 strokes = 2x....