To sand or to polish...?

[vizwhiz]

My boat was...neglected...pretty badly...in the wash/polish/wax area by PO's.

We've polished the hull some - started out with a marine polish, then went to a rubbing compound to try to take the dull, rough, oxidized layer off and get to a smoother surface for finer polishing and waxing. (not there yet) We haven't started on the deck yet, as I've been working on it and dirty-ing it up pretty badly each weekend...but eventually we'll be polishing the cockpit and deck as well...

I've seen several posts where discussions of wet-sanding with super-fine grit sandpaper (2000 and higher numbers?) was done first, then polishing. I'm wondering if it would be easier to get to a nice smooth surface by wet-sanding first, then going back and polishing????*** The rubbing compound seems to work okay, but not great - or at least it seems that it will take several go-overs before I'm at a nice surface...any suggestions?

Disclaimer - I'm not trying to get to "Q1 Quality" on this boat...just make it look like a boat and not a bar of soap.

As always, thanks in advance for any advice!


***I've done some shade-tree body work in my time, so I'm not completely unfamiliar with wet-sanding...just didn't ever do it on fiberglass!

[Divecoz]

Viz: I have never wet sanded a whole boat.. But from previous experience with cars this is going to be a long arduous process...
Good side is, you can be pretty aggressive with few to any concerns.. ( Unlike wet sanding a finished car ) I have and use a Jitter bug.. It uses 1/4 sheets and is submersible in water , as its air powered and its orbital.. that decreases time spent and effort.. Non-skid areas will be an issue IMHO ...
Rubbing compound comes in 3 grit grades are you using heavy duty compound? Are You Using The proper tool for the job? A Big Heavy Powerful 90 degree /right Angle 9" or bigger ( aka spins like crazy and NOTHING slows its down ) machine?
Talk about a PITA to use All Day!! I am think of getting an adapter for my ( much smaller and lighter) right angle cut off grinder.. smaller lighter BUT Noisy!! ( OMG!!! Am I NOW....Going Deaf?!?!!) or just buying a Port-Cable 7424 XP . Variable speed orbital lighter quieter and up to 6800 rpm, the cheaper unit might work every bit as well at 6000 rpm and is a few less dollars..
I needed some scratches buffed out of my hull during my 4 month trip to Florida and it was easy to do.. ( I watched my brother do it after... he watched me dig holes and plant his bushes hahahah) Years and years and LOTS of cars later I Hate using those Big buffers ! He assured me as he proceeded with the work that its a no brain-er as you dont have any of the concerns we always faced when buffing Costly , Custom, Time Consuming Lacquer Paint Jobs....
Yea whatever I'll plant the bushes your wife has on YOUR Honey-do list!! YOU Buff The dang boat!

[Hardcrab]

Vizwiz,
I was amazed once when all I used on a semi-neglected hull was "Bar Keepers Friend", a powdered Ajax like product on steroids.
Granted, there was some elbow grease involved, but the results were very good.
It seemed to easily take off the "oxidized" layer, leaving a somewhat dull finish behind (yikes), but the waxing afterwards brought it up to shiny with no streaks or dull spots due to old oxidized layers still there.

The oxidized layer seemed to more like "clean off" rather than "sand/rub off", hence the amazement with my results.

Try a small section somewhere, perhaps on a non skid area with a stiff brush, or a smooth section with a rag, and see what results you might get.
And start from the top down, the rinse run off with affect the lower areas if already waxed.
Don't ask me how I know that.

A good and really easy non skid protectant /wax for the non skid areas to consider is "Woody Wax", but make sure to follow the instructions.

[vizwhiz]

Thanks all...

Divecoz, I'll check and see what grade rubbing compound I'm using - it's liquid, so I'm guessing it's not the heaviest (didn't think about that). I've used the paste kind that was real gritty, but will that leave too many scratches behind?

HC - I'm familiar with BKF...cool stuff. I'll give it a try.

[u12fly]

Sanding and polishing are two different level. If your boat is just dull from sun exposure you should be able to polish it back to a decent finish. If the boat is scratched from heavy use, that is where you will need to sand, to remove the scratches. You will want to get to AT LEAST 1000 grit wet sanding before going to a heavy duty polish. If you finish is really beat from the sun, or heavily scratched you might need to sand alot to get to clean gelcoat. The gelcoat finish on the boat, for the most part, is pretty thick. You can sand it with 320 grit using a DA sander, then move to 600 and finish with wet sanding 1000 or 1500. Then your ready to polish... it all just alot of work. Enjoy!

Chris.

[1st Sail]

My PO let the top side chalk up. I popped for the Port-Cable 7424 XP. This is a no brainer since it is a true random orbital sander.
Here is my arsenal.
Port-Cable 7424 XP
Lake county pads in 4 grades
Griot's Garage 3 in. random orbital with three grades of pads
Meguiars #49 heavy duty marine oxidation remover
3M 00 polish for the windows.
3M in 3 grades for finish work.
Now that I have everything back to a shine it's just clean, buff and wax.

I would seriously consider the Griot's 6in. RO polisher, I like the handle postion better for long hours of recovering the gelcoat. http://www.griotsgarage.com/home.do?cod ... KgodKBzuZA

[Divecoz]

Viz.. I agree with u12fly.. you could use a DA ???.. I have one, but it really spinsssss, think the speed of light hahahaha.... and with its smaller surface and high speed ( though totally adjustable high end $$$ unit) and using 350 ? You really IMHO need to be careful, as it could burn an edge really easy..even on gel-coat.. I will assume every one knows, but I will remind everyone here , you dont use these machines Flat on..especially those electrics.. Too Much drag among other issues..I really like my little jitterbug for these projects. JSYK... There is a huge difference between a Good Quality Tools, and the cheap china junk you can buy at Freight Harbor.. There are lots of issues with those China Made pieces ( besides Not being Made in America) They dont physically last.. / hold up to usage and ......They are Air Hogs!!!
I have 2 compressors. 1 is a tiny portable pancake unit and , its just for trim nails brads and staples etc . The other is small but it is, a 20 gallon tank with a 220volt 5 Hp motor..I do have 2 pieces of cheap junk, air powered tools. I ... just couldn't justify spending big bucks on two tools , I will seldom use and I am no longer doing any of this for money, anymore... That said they use about 4X's as much air... They are..There by.... running the legs off my compressor.
I ..... drain the crankcase on the bigger compressor every Spring.. and refill it with Rotela Brand Oil.. My reasoning is? If it never failed in my Hot Rod 22x1 Diesel, it should (?) be good for my compressor.
In the end? My vote is for a jitter bug with 500 to 1000 grit..to start and then finish with 2000 grit ..
I would rather have a glass like finish over 99% of the boat with a few hair lines here and there, than be removing massive amounts of gel coat or worse yet end up with a wavy finish by focusing on those deeper scratches.. If they really bother you ? You can use any number of air dry ( wannabe) gel-coat products and sand to perfection and then polish and wax.. I remind you there are no less than 10,000 shades of white !

Thanks all...

Divecoz, I'll check and see what grade rubbing compound I'm using - it's liquid, so I'm guessing it's not the heaviest (didn't think about that). I've used the paste kind that was real gritty, but will that leave too many scratches behind?

HC - I'm familiar with BKF...cool stuff. I'll give it a try.

[kelseydo]

All,
I polished my 96 X last year using almost exactly the same recipe of hardware and components as 1st Sail and am very pleased with the results. It's a little work and there is no substitute for good tools. Plan on going through a lot of pads and product.

Dan

[Andre Emmenegger]

I have some almost beige discolorations mainly in the cockpit area. Has anyone had this or know how to get rid of it? Boat is about 12 years old.

[Divecoz]

I haven't a clue.. Lots of good products suggested for cleaning.. Pick 1 or 5 and see if they remove it.. If Not buy a cheap foam ( fine grit) sanding sponge and clean away and then.... polish and wax ..

[Semper Fi]

I recently refinished our 2006 26M. The beautiful shiney blue gel coat finish was destroyed by south louisiana sun. I have tried several hand methods but the dull oxidized look reappeared within weeks. After reading up I began to understand that no amount af wax was going to fix my problem. I was considering repaint but after speaking with people at Blue Water Yatchs I decided to try very aggresive compounding first. It fixed the problem. In hindsight I now understand that you must remove enough gelcoat to get to an un-oxidized level, then polish it to desired finish, then apply wax to protect the finish. The blue gel coat now has a deep blue mirror finish. I imagine sanding will have the same result in removing oxidized gel coat but you will then need to polish out the scratches and swirl marks left by the wet sanding. Below is the method I used.
After guidence from the BWY folks I chose to polish.I purchased 3M Finesse-It II Glaze from West Marine and tried application by hand. The insturctions reccommended machine application. The 3M site specified a 1000-3000 prm disc polisher be used. I also decided to try the more aggressive "3M Imperial Compound" with the reccommended wool compound pads used on Dewalt machine polisher. I compounded the hull twice with the Imperial Compound. In hind sight I know that I was conservative on the first pass while learning to use the compound and machine. After compounding out all traces of oxidation I used the Dewalt machine and the Finesse-It II glaze to polish the hull to a beautiful finish. Lastly I applied 3M Ultra Performance Marine wax. The finish is astounding and was worth the effort.

Materials used included
Dewalt 1000-3000 adjustable speed polisher $300.00. DO NOT use a high speed grinder!
1 qt 3M Imperial Compound $45
Reccommended 3M wool compounding pad $30
3M Finesse-It II Glaze $19
Reccommended 3M wool blend compounding pad $30
3M Ultra Performance Marine Wax $19
40 hours elbow grease

[vizwhiz]

Lots of awesome insight! Thanks for all those details!

I'll look for a more aggressive compound for the deck and cockpit, which is the part I'm most concerned about (and which gets the worst sun exposure). The whole upper portion of the boat is very chalky. I'll stick to the conservative approach on the hull and maybe just add a lot of wax for now.

This isn't exactly my dream boat, as it's had some damage and the hull would be too much work to try to "restore"...just want it to look cared-for.
(Besides, you can't see the hull when you're in the cockpit, right?)

[Divecoz]

Semper.. I commend you for going easy the first time out of the box.. Too Much speed is no less, than a mess... I watched my brother buff out and then polish both sides of my M ( below the boot stripe to the rub rail ) in a little over an hour .. He'sssssssssssss REALLY good ! He can handle that HUGE machine and its Huge pad. I'm....not so good. I need,and use, a slower smaller machine, for anywhere near the same results, and in double the time..
Wiz: You could jitterbug the whole hull ( rub to boot or more(?) in less than an afternoon using 1000 grit .. The bug is IIRC about $50 at H.F.
ON EDIT: Holy Cow $23!! http://www.harborfreight.com/jitterbug- ... 90115.html

[vizwhiz]

Okay, polished some more today. Admiral and I started last week polishing one part of the boat at a time - at the end of the day working on the boat, we take a little while to polish one part - started with the stern last week. So today we were playing with the outer part of the deck (above the rub rail) on the port side of the cockpit. Chalky.

Rubbing compound. Not as chalky - towel had the white chalk on it. Still kinda rough, though.

Rubbing compound again. Not as chalky, better, but still a bit rougher than I expected after two times with the rubbing compound. Towel had more chalk on it.

Got out the Atwood marine polish...same spot on the boat. Better, smoother, could see a difference from an angle, but couldn't see much difference otherwise.

Marine polish again. A little better than before. (At this rate, it will be Christmas before we get the whole boat done!!)

Grabbed the Meguiar's carnuba wax (liquid - smells like banana pudding...yummm!) just to see what a coat of wax would do. Helped some, but I am still disappointed with the results after so much effort.

We've pretty much decided to do a once-over rubbing and polish, wax it nicely, then smile and be finished with it. This boat won't get back to glossy (in my lifetime, that is), but will look good enough and be clean enough for what we want to use it for...and we're okay with that (as of today). We'll be too busy looking at the water and the birds and the clouds and such anyway.

Thanks to all for the advice and suggestions and insight!!

[u12fly]

I was at that point... Previous owner left the boat out in the water, and in the sun. Although it was only a 2006 boat. She just did not have the shine I wanted. There were also patches on the blue hull that would not blend out. I decided to strip the entire boat, sand it down and paint it. I wanted a custom paint job, 3 months later, and I'm not done yet