Mast hits electrical wires when splashing Mac

[Retcoastie]

Retcoastie--the difference between your experience and his was the presence of a path to ground on his boat and not on yours.

What ever the reason, I sure am thankful. Looking back after seeing these pics I can only think that somehow what I did was pull one wire over close enough to another wire to arc one to the other. Enough power to blow the transformer on the pole would have done severe damage if it had come down into our boat.

[ualpow]

If only one boat... idiotic mistake.

If two boats or more... idiotic manufacturing practice!

True, but I think my chain-plate has been removed before. The center nut is not self locking like the other two so it might not be a manufacturing issue.

[RobertB]

In reference to the post about wiring problems, let me share what I found on my brand new last fall.

I was adding a VHF radio, chartplotter, stereo, 12 VDC outlets - general pimp my boat stuff

Figured out immediately that the 14 AWG feeding the breaker panel was just not going to do it - in fact, according to marine wiring guidelines, this is not even enough for navigation lights

While working around the breaker panel, my lights kept flickering - finally found that all the circuit grounds were bunched together on a machine screw next to the panel (look for a small plastic screw head cap next to the panel) and they were loose - I know I am only a lowly mechanical engineer, but even I know that loose electrical connections are a bad thing.

Bottom line - I now have fuses at the battery terminals (code), 6 AWG to a new breaker panel for all accesories, a short fun of 10 AWG to the stock fuse panel, terminal blocks for all gang connections, and sealed marine splices/terminals. Most accesory wiring ranges from 10 AWG to 14 AWG according to length of run and load.

Suggest all look at what you are running off the stock panel and what the capcity is based on the size wire supplying the panel (and condition of all connections/splices).

[Divecoz]

Anything is possible.. The One thing you can count on with High Voltage is that you can count on everything and nothing I would have thought that the #14 wire would have acted like a fusible link or the little distribution panel would have acted like a F.L. ..

How could this "conductivity wise " have happened?

When I was rewiring my boat and pulling thru the factory "lampcord" wires, they were snagged in one spot, until I realized that the wire route was sandwiched between the chainplate and the hull.
...............
RE: photo 1...notice the new port-side galley bay window!

[Divecoz]

RobertB.. I have a couple questions..
1. Which Code / Guide Lines are you referencing?
2. Is a Non Commercial Use Boat, under 26', addressed by those guide lines?
Due to the difficulty with running New Wires between the Liner and the Hull/Deck.. its a simpler , less frustrating plan of attack to replace all lights with LED's..Problem solved.Just the bulbs or even the whole device..
I agree with you and did as well , add a new panel with new feeds and fuses.. for all my additional devices..
Fusible Link between battery and Panels Yes.. Direct attachment to battery for devices? even with an In Line fuse.. I do not suggest this installation ..

[Highlander]

K9Kampers wrote:
How could this "conductivity wise " have happened?

Musta had one of them their 4ft S/S mast top VHF Antennas

When I was rewiring my boat and pulling thru the factory "lampcord" wires, they were snagged in one spot, until I realized that the wire route was sandwiched between the chainplate and the hull.

You got an option for free & do not realize how lucky you were, this allows you to mount spreader lights & other electrical eccess to your mast & rigging by just attaching all wires directly to the mast , boom or standing rigging Gez some guy's just don't know when they lucked out ! "TellEm Richard"
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RE: photo 1...notice the new port-side galley bay window!

I'd be willing to assist you to do that mod allso
Of course this mod would require window blinds "Lord Forbid" We'd not want to see yer romping around inside "Butt naked"

J

[RobertB]

Divecoz

The guidelines I am referencing are the ABCY Standards (Americal Boat and Yacht Council - voluntary standards on boat design and construction) - applicable to all boats.

Not sure on what is required by law but I subscribe to best practice consensus standards as a very credible guideline on defining good vs poor design and construction practices.

As far as sizing wiring, the most common resource I see is the ABCY table on voltage drop due to conductor size vs run length. I use the 3% loss table (the 10% loss table is ok for circuits without electric motors or sensitive electronics).
The ABCY standard also recommends fusing within 7 inches of the primary voltage source.

BTW - I had Inmon factory sales install a freshwater system - they hooked this up directly to the battery vs running wire to the fuse panel. I now have this running off the breaker panel.

Yes, running wiring larger than 14 AWG was a B--ch Also quite challenging running 10 AWG duplex from one side of the companionway down to the ladder top and back up to the fuse panel (I was prepared to leave the 14 AWG supplying the factory panel but since I could "heavy up" I did.

As far as using LEDs, I would have paid for this if offered as a factory option, otherwise, not high on the list just yet. I believe I read in ABCY that navigation lights should use the 3% table and this is why I state the factory wiring is not great. LEDs would have taken care of the load on the existing circuits but not for the sensitive electronics (including motors that should not be run on reduced voltage) I added including:
Dometic electric cooler (compressor type)
Chartplotter
VHS
Stereo
Washdown system

[Divecoz]

There is a lot to all of this here "lectrical stuff"
ABYC?.... I , by and large have no issue with them.. ( EXCEPT COST!) Are they sometimes or even often, Over Kill.. IMHO ? It happens. Do they tend to address worse case scenario, yes they do..BUT ... I agree....Fail safely if you must, or do fail at all.. Are they Big Advocates of Ratchet type connector crimpers, as I am and have been on this board for years ? Yes they are. My attempt on this board has been to help members..... do the best job they can, with what they are willing to purchase $$$.
Accessing ABYC at times has been difficult.. ABYC is NOT for free not even available cheaply or IMHO even Reasonably, except as bits and blips on the Internet.. To Join as a Tech Member ( Lowest Cost Membership) is $285..( I didn't even look . Is That a yearly cost?) To purchase ABCYs basic A/C and D/C electrical circuits book as a None Member is what $195??? A Cmplete set with Minimal membership will cost you about.... $2000 Hahahahahaha Yea they are printing those 24/7 just to keep up wth the demand.. NOT!
http://store.abycinc.org/merchant.mvc?S ... _STANDARDS
Need I mention? Most of us here dont have....... the option of running this Under the radar ( hiding)these cost as a tax deduction.......


I found and bought ratchet crimpers and USED them, here at home and on my boat and 1000's of times In The Field aka at work..
I researched until I found a set of Ratchet crimpers, ones that I thought were of decent quality and for a reasonable enough price that members might pull the trigger... Very Few Did.. We have had no less than 1 dozen members here , who have argued with me that a soldier connection is better than a Proper crimp connection.. Interesting enough ABYC Does not advocate Soldiered Connections..
Wire size reduction , aka in-line splice? ABYC expects the use of some ?? Very Expensive purpose generated step down barrels.. Fat Chance...
I have offered suitable, field proven, working options.. I will not even address ABYC 30 lb working , load test on # 18 awg conductors..
Don't use Electricians Tape? Wow ..Low and Behold I find there ARE other brands available, other than, 3 M 33+ Hahahahaha and the Gray Silicon Self Fusing purpose generated Mylar liner tape at in or around $20 for what is in fact a small roll Hahahahaha
So my purpose driven desire, on this site has been , to enable members to do the best ( better ) job, that they are willing to pay for, and at a level of ability they commanded..
You can post direct copies from graphs and charts here all.... day ...... long....and in the end ? IMHO all you accomplished is wasted band width..

[RobertB]

Did not mean for this to go so ballistic - just that ABCY is the standards based guidance supplied for free from vendors such as West Martine and others offering advice on best practices in selecting wiring components and how to install them (all I have used is available for free). As an engineer with experience in everything from tool design to military aircraft and air traffic control system wiring, I appreciate voluntary consensus standards as good guidance on best practices. As acting on my own as an auto mechanic, home renovator, and cabinetmaker, I also understand that there should be some consideration of the merits and applicability of all advice when building/repairing something. Hand crimpers - I have used these for 30 years - just bought a racheting pair from West Marine for under $100 and think they are great! I will still carry a pair of regular crimpers for repairs. Electrical tape - I use adhesive heat shrink tubing or sealed marine terminals (heat shrink) wherever I can because I know these methods will stay intact much longer than tape. I still use tape where I need to. Just sayin that good guidance is valuable to say how it should be but not always the best method for me and the resources available.

[Divecoz]

Robert no one is going ballistic..
ABY -C is all you say it is and I have agreed with you..
Not everyone here can$$ or will buy approved ABYC materials and or Installation Equipment../ tools...
We then try ( all of us ) to help them build and install the best system they can with what they have..
Fair Winds Calm Seas

[Russ]

You sure this thing hit an overhead wire? As mentioned above, overhead wires near ramps are rare. That's a lot of damage. Seems more like a lightning strike.

[Matt19020]

I also rigged at a ramp once on a 19 footer ...backing in to ramp noticed parking lot light wire run accross access area...stopped in time dropped mast rigged in water ....I know it can happen..
Your right a lot of damage ....
Theory ...sparks dropped on to fuel tank area and ignited 24 gallons of gas....lots of damage to cockpit and motor....

[Divecoz]

Theories will abound till facts are known..
Lighten ? I would have thought this would have been mentioned.
Several years ago I ran a large job.. 30 men( large is a relative term) Every Morning before I would send out 30 Journeymen and 3 Foremen.. I mentioned..
Our Goal today IS ....to get er done... Without Any Huge Balls of Fire rolling across the floor or flying through the air..Gentlemen.... get er done..

I also rigged at a ramp once on a 19 footer ...backing in to ramp noticed parking lot light wire run across access area...stopped in time dropped mast rigged in water ....I know it can happen..
Your right a lot of damage ....
Theory ...sparks dropped on to fuel tank area and ignited 24 gallons of gas....lots of damage to cockpit and motor....