Sail setup Questions

[Dibbs]

I just bought a 2002 MAC X. It is my first sailboat. I have been working to get her ready to go out for a day before work picks up in a couple weeks. I have found so many answers on this site an refer to it a lot, but I could not find an answer to this one...Could you help me find one or help me with the answer?

My Boat is used and had been out in the weather for a while (4-6yrs). I cleaned it all up and everything looks pretty good. I just have a problem with the auto furler and sail choice for it: I have figured out how it works and the safe set-up it requires, but the jib halyard canvas loop broke on the actual sail. I plan on repairing it, but I have a Doyle Genoa RF that looks good. Could I mount this on the furler and use it? I would have more sail area and I would be able to role it up some to use as a quasi-jib if I wanted less work...

What do you think?

New guy,
Dibbs

[Catigale]

The Doyle 15o genoa does fit on the CDI FF2 that most boats of that vintage had, if they had a furler.

The boat will point a lot better with a jib though.

[Dibbs]

Alright, Catigale, I will fold up the genoa and go back to the jib, I am guessing that by point you mean it will be easier to maintain course under sail. I am going to attempt to sew in a new strap where the old one was.

Ease of operation is a consederation for us since we are not experienced sailors...even with 17 years in the Navy... go figure.

[Hamin' X]

I have a 150 on my FF2 on my 2001 X. Pointing does not become problematic until ~15kt winds. You will point a bit higher with a true jib, but not much, if the rest of your rig is tuned correctly and your use proper sail trim. I use the 150 exclusively and have no problem with it up to ~35kt winds, then I can only point to about 50º true, but still about 35º relative. This is with the main down to the second reef point. I can maintain <20º heel in this configuration.

~Rich

[bscott]

Learn to sail with the jib especially with a green crew--once you lean how to tack and gybe the jib switch to the 150. That clew ring needs a heavy duty strap. How old is the Doyle--original? If so, it is probably worn out or rotten. The OEM Doyle is a piece of trash.

Where is St. Mary's River?

Bob

[Catigale]

Dibbs...are in the Great Lakes or down south?

[mastreb]

I'm going to dissent against the excellent advice that has been provided by some very wise and experienced sailors thus far, because I'm close enough to being a "noob" that I know what you're doing with your boat right now.

A true jib is (frankly, multiple fore sails are) more of a master sailor's sail, whereas the 150 Genoa on a roller furler is a forgiving and easy learning sail. It teaches the importance of reefing across a broad spectrum of winds, which is one of the most important things a Mac sailor will learn. I sailed for a decade on a full-keel boat with a mainsail and a 110 non-roller jib, and I never even learned the word "reef"--because I didn't have to and I didn't have sails that could.

Bottom line, when you're new to sailing you will drop sail above 15 knots and fire up the the iron genny (motor) to get home. A few months down the road, when you've googled the real meaning of every word posted on this site, then worry about pointing performance and the characteristics of a true jib. Right now its about getting wet and not wasting money until you know why you're wasting money.

Pointing means sailing closer to directly into the wind, and it's frankly going to be months to years before you attempt to go to any specific place under sail. Pointing will not be important until you have a destination. Right now you're a day sailor, and you head in the easiest direction--the one that gets you speed. You'll be heading where ever the wind blows you for quite some time. Rig the 150 Genoa that you have. Furl it in to 100 or 75 percent and use it as a less effective jib. Learn to reef! Practice keeping your heel down to 20%--and learn why that's important. When you've got enough experience to care how well you point and to worry about seeking out that extra half-knot, then spend money on sails.

I also did six in the Navy--didn't teach me a damned thing about actual sails, nor did I learn any decent knots. But it did teach me to love the sea, live at sea, the importance of redundancy and graceful degradation, maintenance of ship's systems, engines, communications at sea, and how to evade cruise missiles. Not using that last skill much these days but the rest of it is all relevant. Keeping that last one as a "just in case."

Welcome to real pretend sailing.

[robbarnes1965]

Ditto, plus I am too lazy to change sails. I have both. I will switch to the jib when I have worn out the genoa

I'm going to dissent against the excellent advice that has been provided by some very wise and experienced sailors thus far, because I'm close enough to being a "noob" that I know what you're doing with your boat right now.

A true jib is (frankly, multiple fore sails are) more of a master sailor's sail, whereas the 150 Genoa on a roller furler is a forgiving and easy learning sail. It teaches the importance of reefing across a broad spectrum of winds, which is one of the most important things a Mac sailor will learn. I sailed for a decade on a full-keel boat with a mainsail and a 110 non-roller jib, and I never even learned the word "reef"--because I didn't have to and I didn't have sails that could.

Bottom line, when you're new to sailing you will drop sail above 15 knots and fire up the the iron genny (motor) to get home. A few months down the road, when you've googled the real meaning of every word posted on this site, then worry about pointing performance and the characteristics of a true jib. Right now its about getting wet and not wasting money until you know why you're wasting money.

Pointing means sailing closer to directly into the wind, and it's frankly going to be months to years before you attempt to go to any specific place under sail. Pointing will not be important until you have a destination. Right now you're a day sailor, and you head in the easiest direction--the one that gets you speed. You'll be heading where ever the wind blows you for quite some time. Rig the 150 Genoa that you have. Furl it in to 100 or 75 percent and use it as a less effective jib. Learn to reef! Practice keeping your heel down to 20%--and learn why that's important. When you've got enough experience to care how well you point and to worry about seeking out that extra half-knot, then spend money on sails.

I also did six in the Navy--didn't teach me a damned thing about actual sails, nor did I learn any decent knots. But it did teach me to love the sea, live at sea, the importance of redundancy and graceful degradation, maintenance of ship's systems, engines, communications at sea, and how to evade cruise missiles. Not using that last skill much these days but the rest of it is all relevant. Keeping that last one as a "just in case."

Welcome to real pretend sailing.

[Catigale]

I think in your first season you should be trying out all points of sail including pointing towards the wind. In light air, you will need a foresail on an to try this out IMHO.

Under these conditions, a jib will perform much better than a partially furled genny.

[Dibbs]

Hey guys,

I really apprecieate all the help. I'm not on the computer at home much, so my replies come slowly. Still, I really appreciate it. I decided to repair the sail with some a heavy duty strap and some line.

I am in Saint Mary's, GA on the boarder of FL and GA.

My wife, refered to here by most as the Admiral, is really good with her sewing machine and did a really good job with the mending. Yes, we made sure we were using the right "stuff" to do it. It could rot off, but I will replace it before that happens.

My plan is to set out this friday and give Sailing a try, I have owned an old bow rider and got bored with it quickly. I used to build and fly RC planes, but got tired of that after moving 7 times in 7 years ...a problem with the Navy. I hope this hobby will be more permanent and I can stick with it.

My Madden plan:

I plan to take out the boat to the ramp at about 0600 and set it putting it by 0700 to 0730. After inspecting for leaks and tieing her up I will then look over the trailer for any issues or repairs needed. I have a friend comming out who is equally experienced as I at sailing as I am (ZERO) to help with the set up. I have raised and lowered my mast about 10 times in my yard, raised the main 2 time and the Jib once furled it up and stowed it like that. Alright back to the plan...Once I am done with the trailer I plan to go out and see how she rides with no water in the tank on the motor while getting out to deeper water. I will be checking my rigging adjustments and making sure we have no shock loading to the mast at this time. My biggest goals will be checking the boat and trailer and making sure everthing it working safe and that I stay in deep enough water. Once out we may get to the sailing as long as everthing else is working like it should. It should, my friends and wife have been telling me I am like a Boating boyscout with this boat, but I would rather not have to cut an outing short.
If everything works out I may tie her up and leave her at the dock over night if I can get ahold of the dock master and get permission or rent the slip for the week-end.
Again thanks for ll your input. I will post how it goes when I can.

[Ixneigh]

Right now its about getting wet and not wasting money until you know why you're wasting money.

Love that. So true.


I agree with the genny on furler choice. For now it's well matched to the wind conditions that are in the pleasant for most people to be out in range. Once it gets too windy to fly the genny, almost every female I've ever sailed with wants to go back to the dock

So far as the clip on jibs that snap onto the headstay go, they are a lot of work. I will eventually carry three. The oem working jib, a smaller stronger wind sail I call the mule, and a drifter for light wind days. These all have to be bagged, take up space and have to be set and lowered every time the wind changes substantially. Rare is the day I set one and don't have to mess with headsails again that day.
Why do I bother? A few Reasons. First is, at anchor where my boat spends most of her time, the rolled up sail on the head stay is annoying as it jiggles the boat when the wind kicks up and makes the boat movement much worse.
Second, I like to sail and got my boat more because of room inside, shallow water, and appearance of the boat over all, and not so much for the motor part. I am willing to work harder ( occasionally) to get the most out of sailing the boat, and stand alone jibs will usually out perform a roller furler, ESP. When they are halfway rolled up, since then they begin to loose efficient shape. There is usually plenty of wind where I live, so more often then not, the furler that came with my boat was in some stage of rolled- up-edness. In 20 knots of wind what I want up there is a stout high cut Yankee similar to the mule. It will have less windage and plenty of drive. But hardly anyone wants to be thrashing around in those conditions. My dogs hate it, the ladies or most of them will mutiny, if there are children below wanting to play video games or read, the extreme lean of the boat in higher winds will make those activities difficult.
So hardly anyone but me, and I'm insane anyway. If you begin to become excited with speed under sail, you will probably start thinking about a different boat anyway. People often move up from macGregor boats to something bigger and that sails better. not like me who did the opposite.

Ixneigh

[GaryMayo]

Hey guys,

I really apprecieate all the help. I'm not on the computer at home much, so my replies come slowly. Still, I really appreciate it. I decided to repair the sail with some a heavy duty strap and some line.

I am in Saint Mary's, GA on the boarder of FL and GA.

My wife, refered to here by most as the Admiral, is really good with her sewing machine and did a really good job with the mending. Yes, we made sure we were using the right "stuff" to do it. It could rot off, but I will replace it before that happens.

My plan is to set out this friday and give Sailing a try, I have owned an old bow rider and got bored with it quickly. I used to build and fly RC planes, but got tired of that after moving 7 times in 7 years ...a problem with the Navy. I hope this hobby will be more permanent and I can stick with it.

My Madden plan:

I plan to take out the boat to the ramp at about 0600 and set it putting it by 0700 to 0730. After inspecting for leaks and tieing her up I will then look over the trailer for any issues or repairs needed. I have a friend comming out who is equally experienced as I at sailing as I am (ZERO) to help with the set up. I have raised and lowered my mast about 10 times in my yard, raised the main 2 time and the Jib once furled it up and stowed it like that. Alright back to the plan...Once I am done with the trailer I plan to go out and see how she rides with no water in the tank on the motor while getting out to deeper water. I will be checking my rigging adjustments and making sure we have no shock loading to the mast at this time. My biggest goals will be checking the boat and trailer and making sure everthing it working safe and that I stay in deep enough water. Once out we may get to the sailing as long as everthing else is working like it should. It should, my friends and wife have been telling me I am like a Boating boyscout with this boat, but I would rather not have to cut an outing short.
If everything works out I may tie her up and leave her at the dock over night if I can get ahold of the dock master and get permission or rent the slip for the week-end.
Again thanks for ll your input. I will post how it goes when I can.

From one new Mac guy to another, have fun when you go out. It will not all go as planed, but all in all, you will have a great day!

[Dibbs]

Alright well work is picking up and I went out against all advice in not so good weather. We did fine untill running on the motor through a narrow part of the river. My motor died and being inexperienced I was thinking I would let out the jib some, but gave up on that when in about 2 minutes we were being pushed into the side of the channel. The tide was going out and we were in danger of being beached for a while, so what did we do? We got out of the boat and pushed it off the land threw the anchor out deeper to keep us in in deeper water while we found out the issues with the engine. We when in the mud I cut my foot up pretty good on some clams and that ended the trip pretty much. We went back in and I recieved 9 stitches in my foot. Here we are a week later with great weather and I need to keep my foot dry so again I am fighting the urge to go out. I get my stitches out next thursday and maybe next week-end will be better. So, again thanks for all the great advice, I just wish I waould have used the advice I recieved from my fishing buddies and stayed at home. She did motor well and I got my trailer all fixed up as I left the boat at the dock over night and brought it in the next day. So, thats the story of my 1st big mistake, many more to follow I am sure. Hey I recommend you take topsider shoes with you and wear them if you get in the mud...

Learning the hard way,
Chris

[Tomfoolery]

Get some cheap water shoes and keep them on the boat. Nothing fancy - just something that ties or straps securely, so they don't get pulled off in deep mud. Even old sneakers are better than nothing. Flip-flops won't do it, as they'll get pulled off. Don't destroy your expensive Sperry Docksiders, either.

http://www.swimoutlet.com/product_p/26880.htm