Which line to cockpit?

vizwhiz · Post by **vizwhiz** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:12 pm

Okay, quick question here...
I currently have the jib sheets coming back to the winches with cam cleats.
I have the furler line running to a cleat on the outer port edge.
I have the main halyard running through a block at the bottom of the mast, to a turning block, and back to a cam cleat at the cockpit.
I have one unused block on the other side at the bottom of the mast, with a turning block outside also...and was wondering...

I have set it up once or twice to pass the boom vang through there and bring that back to the cockpit...works fine.
I have heard some say that they have the topping lift brought to the cockpit also...but I do not, mine is cleated at the mast.

From your experience, should I route the boom vang line back, or the topping lift, neither, or...something else entirely?
Thanks!

Y.B.Normal · Post by **Y.B.Normal** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:24 pm

While I have a 26M, not a 26S, I would suggest you run both back to the cockpit, as I did on my
San Juan 21. I liked having all lines led to the cockpit as it made it easier to adjust them, especially
if your single-handling it. I feel that the less you have to do at the mast or foredeck the better.
Especially if it's rough or the wind is blowing hard.

Happy sailing,
Dale

c130king · Post by **c130king** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:38 am

I don't have Boom Vang led back to the cockpit...I only loosen it to raise the main and then once the main is up I sheet the boom down tight and then lean out over the sliding hatch and yank the BV down tight. The line is probably 4' long and will reach back to the hatch. I could run it aft but seems like a waste of time, energy and money to me.

I don't have the Topping Lift led back to the cockpit...it is tied in place and there is no need for me to ever adjust. The only time I ever touch my TL is when I lower the mast and then I will untie from the end of the boom and then gather up the TL and bungy it to the mast.

However, if you want to have your boat set up so that you minimize the time you have to leave the cockpit then I would suggest you consider a single-line reefing system led back to the cockpit...probably through that unused block at the base of the mast. I have the single-line "jiffy reef" system (or a modified version of it I guess) and it works great.

I can either pull my reefing line tight before I ever raise the sails (option 1 and preferred option) and then raise only to the reef or if I have the main up and the winds get a little too gusty or strong for my tastes then I "Heave To" and reef while I slowly drift down wind with the main hanging limp...works very well for me. No need to put the reefing cringle on the hook. The reefing line holds the cringle down against the boom (or as close as it can due to the sail slugs).

Just an opinion...that and $4.38 will get you a Vente Latte at someplace that charges too much for coffee.

Good Luck.

Cheers,
Jim

Sumner · Post by **Sumner** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:53 am

If I was going to run one of those two lines back it would be the topping lift as we use that way more often than the boom vang. We don't have the boom vang even rigged the majority of the time, only if we are running and then forget it sometimes

.

Personally and maybe someone can enlighten me I question having the main halyard run to the cockpit unless you also had a downhaul line and reefing lines going there also. Sure being able to pull the main up is nice, but what about bringing it down unless it always falls all the way down? Ours doesn't and we have slugs. Now you have to go to the mast and pull it down and the uphaul line is just balling up there with part of it thru the blocks back to the cockpit and the rest at the foot of the mast.

Also how do you reef if some of the lines are at the mast and some in the cockpit. You will use the topping lift while reefing, so I'd keep the cleat on the mast for it so that you have the option of cleating it off there if you are at the mast reefing or before going to the mast with the cam cleat by the cockpit.

At some point I'd like to lead our lines to the cockpit, but either want them all there or all at the mast as they are now. Even when they go aft I'll keep cleats at the mast to be able to control any of them there that I need to if that situation arises.

What do the rest of you guys do?

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

Tomfoolery · Post by **Tomfoolery** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:20 am

I don't have a good answer for that. Mine came with the main halyard led aft to the cockpit with a rope clutch. Topping lift is at the mast only, and standard factory slab reefing with a single reef point using a hook and the outhaul. Vang is at the mast base only (factory), and the jib and spinnaker halyards are also at the mast (I added the spin. halyard).

I'm not sure I'd take advantage of the topping lift in the cockpit, as I use it when hoisting and dropping the main, and I'm at the mast for that anyway. I have to adjust the TL to put the boom over the bimini when at the dock or motoring, but it has to stay below it for sailing, so I do move it with every sail.

Not so much the vang, though I'd probably use it more if I brought it back to the cockpit.

Asymmetric spinnaker sock lines would be nice to have in the cockpit, but that would be a real pain to rig, and I'd have to go up front to rig it anyway, so I don't think I'd gain anything there. Sheets are in the cockpit already (when flying it), so I can cut it loose easily if I have to. I also have a tack line that I rig at the same time, and I could cut that loose also, though I'm not sure that buys anything.

Jib is on a roller furler, so it's all in the cockpit already. Jib halyard is used only for raising/lowering the mast with a gin pole, and I could probably lose it and use the (new) spinnaker halyard instead, saving some weight aloft and line clutter at the mast.

Main halyard being in the cockpit probably doesn't do anything for me, either, as it won't come down with any side loading on the sail anyway, and I'd have to go forward to flake it anyway. I did that even with a much bigger boat with lazy jacks. That boat had everything but the topping lift brought aft, but I still went to the mast to lower the main. I could raise it from the cockpit, but had to use the winch for the last 10 ft or so, so that one had to be brought aft (no winches on the mast).

I'm not sure there's any advantage (on my boat, at least) of bringing ANYTHING back except for the sheets and maybe the vang. Maybe.

I'm interested to hear what others do.

kitcat · Post by **kitcat** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:25 am

I used to run my topping lift back to the cockpit in the normal way, but as I want to run main halyard uphaul and downhaul back, as well as some sort of single line reefing and I've already got lines for the Asymetrical spinny, it just seems like a lot of string to keep tidy, so at least managing the topping lift differently seemed quite important.

I was browsing our local chandlers and came across a dinghy mainsheet block and line, already made up, and with a bit of lateral thinking, decided that if I tied the topping lift to the top of the mast,so it was fixed at that end, I could rig up the dinghy mainsheet tackle off the bottom end tied to the topping lift and to the end of the boom with a small bracket I made up. I have to say it works a treat, so now I can reach the end of the boom easily, and all I have to do is pull down on the line and cleat it into the V jammer on the block. I've freed up a pulley at the top of the mast and got one less line in the cockpit. Magic!

Paul

vizwhiz · Post by **vizwhiz** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:17 pm

This is great feedback...thanks! Any more opinions out there?

By the way, being in Florida, I plan to use the bimini most of the time...or better said, think I'll need to use the bimini most of the time...which makes me think I'll be setting the topping lift at "over the bimini" and pretty much leaving it there, except for removing the boom and lowering the mast...it makes me think that running the topping lift to the cockpit is less important than other options. Any of you sail with the bimini up a lot? Is that how you do it?

Right now I have two reefing lines, both led down along the boom, but based on information in another thread, I may change the way the forward line is run, which may mean taking it off the boom and running it back to the cockpit. Will see about that...

parrothead · Post by **parrothead** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:33 pm

I sail with the bimini up nearly all the time, and have a fixed topping lift similar in concept to what kitkat has described, except with perhaps even fewer moving parts.

kitcat · Post by **kitcat** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:21 pm

Yep that is exactly the same concept. A picture is worth a thousand words

I see you are using a steel line for the fixed part of the topping lift? I used some spare rope I had and it seems to be quite strong enough, but steel would be even better I guess?

Paul

c130king · Post by **c130king** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:25 pm

VW,

I keep my bimini up most of the time. But my boom is too low. My Topping Lift is not adjustable (at least not easily).

What I do is for the two forward straps that pull the bimini forward and keep it extended is that I normally only use one of the straps...the one on the opposite side of the boom.

When I want to tack or gybe I reach forward and unhook that one strap and let the bimini fall back and out of the way...then I tack/gybe in the normal fashion...and then pull the bimini back forward and reattach the other strap which is now the one opposite the boom.

I guess if the TL was led aft you could just pull the boom up right before you tack/gybe and then let it back down.

I have a fairly tall bimini so I can't just adjust my boom to be above it and leave it that way...would have terrible sail shape. If I am staying close hauled the boom stays inside and under the front of the bimini. If I want to fall off some and let the main out then I also have to do a quick release of the bimini...ease the boom out beyond the bimini and then pull the bimini back forward again.

Admittedly this is a pain if you are tack often. And if I plan to do it often I will leave it back out of my way.

And as for Sum's statement about halyard left aft being sort of pointless unless you have a line to pull the main down (i call mine a "haul-down" since a "down-haul" is something else) and reefing lines led aft...I agree. I am very happy with my halyard/haul-down system. The line is 75' long...one end tied to the top of the head board in the normal way and led up over the sheave at the top of the mast and down to the base then through a few turning blocks and back to the cockpit (all pretty standard) but then this line doubles back on itself through a seperate set of blocks (but right next to the halyard blocks) to the mast and then up to the top of the sail where I tie it around the top most sail slug. There is probably 4' of line in a loop (so 2' of loop) in the cockpit. Pull one way and it is a halyard pulling the main up...pull the other way and it is a haul-down pulling the main down.

Cheers,
Jim
Sailing on König
Sailing on König YouTube Channel

parrothead · Post by **parrothead** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:17 pm

some spare rope I had and it seems to be quite strong enough, but steel would be even better I guess?

It's very light weight wire, selected not really for strength, but for low windage and zero stretch. It was a dealer-installed option back in '05. Has held up very well.

vizwhiz · Post by **vizwhiz** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:58 am

Jim, I remember seeing the pics of your "window shade" halyard arrangement...very nice!
I'm not sure, on my S, whether I'll need to adjust the TL often or not...will have to play with it. Thanks for the input, though, and as you say, it will be based on how frequently I have to tack. Not sure, being in the bay to start with, whether that will be often or not.

I have a regular rope holding up the TL...and it goes through a block at the top of the mast, so I adjust from the mast (at this time). What is the benefit to having it "stretch-less"? You're using it to hold the boom up, not down (against the sail) like a vang, right?

I'm wondering...does having the adjustment on the end of the boom makes it a problem for reaching it if it needed to be adjusted - is it difficult to adjust while sailing if the boom was anywhere but over the cockpit? That is, I'm also assuming you'd adjust it while sailing...

Tomfoolery · Post by **Tomfoolery** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:33 am

I'm not Jim, but in my experience on boats of varying size, the TL does nothing when sailing as the main holds up the boom. When you drop the main, including for reefing, the TL takes over, so the boom is centered anyway. I've never had one that adjusts from the end of the boom, but I don't see a downside to it unless you forget to slacken it and you can't reach the end, in which case having it on the mast is a plus.

Of course, you could always have adjustment on both ends, mast and boom end, for whatever conditions dictate what. In fact, that's not a bad idea for my boat, being that it's already run to the mast, and I have more line than I really need. A couple of small blocks would do the trick, which I likely have laying around anyway.

c130king · Post by **c130king** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:02 am

tkanzler wrote:I'm not Jim, but in my experience on boats of varying size, the TL does nothing when sailing as the main holds up the boom. When you drop the main, including for reefing, the TL takes over, so the boom is centered anyway. I've never had one that adjusts from the end of the boom, but I don't see a downside to it unless you forget to slacken it and you can't reach the end, in which case having it on the mast is a plus.

Of course, you could always have adjustment on both ends, mast and boom end, for whatever conditions dictate what. In fact, that's not a bad idea for my boat, being that it's already run to the mast, and I have more line than I really need. A couple of small blocks would do the trick, which I likely have laying around anyway.

Yes. In fact I only need the topping lift to hold up the boom when the sail cover is on the main. When the cover is off I put up the lazy jacks and my lazy jacks hold up the boom when the sail is down (with cover off).

I have never adjusted my TL. It is tied to the top of the mast and tied to the end of the boom. But it is tied such that the boom cannot come down low enough to hit my electronics on top of my pedastal. When the main is down and I am not using it or planning on using it soon I normally slide my traveller over to one side or the other and bungy the boom to the stanchion at the front of the cockpit and then pull the main sheet tight to keep everything out of the way and locked in place so it won't swing.

My TL is just a piece of line and there is no hardware. Just bowline at the top and a bunch of ugly knots at the end of the boom to try and use up the extra line.

Jim

bscott · Post by **bscott** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:27 am

When I installed my cockpit table I thru bolted the frame to the mast crotch tube. When I installed the crotch I found that the crotch was abut 12" higher because it was now sitting on the bolt--so now I install the crotch while moored or motoring giving me more boom clearence in the cockpit. It also acts as a hand hold.

I tied loops at reefing heights on my TL--I hook the bitter end of the line into the appropriate loop after the reef.

Don't use the vang as it is too difficult to uncleat in prep for a reef. I have run my main halyard to the cockpit via a Harken mast mounted swivel cam cleat. I can uncleat the halyard and pull the reefing line to meet the reefing hook on the boom. I have a strong bungee wrapped around the mast to prevent the slugs from falling out of the mast.
I tie the reefed main sail from the hatchway/cockpit.

For a second deep reef I have to go to the mast to hook the first reef to the boom and place my reefing hook into the second reef cringle using the same line/hook.

To flake out the first reef, untie the main, uncleat the reefing line and haul up the main--all from the cockpit.

Since I found the vang difficult to use I added a 4:1 triangle traveler to my boom and hooked to the leeward gunnel. I can control my boom on a reach and it acts as a mini preventer on a run. Prior to tacking, the traveler is moved to the new leeward gunnel and attached to the boom once the tack is completed.

I have a Schaffer Snap Furl so I have a jib halyard that I lead to the cockpit via the Harden SC--I ease the jib halyard on a broad reach and run so I use my winch to harden up the jib on a close reach.

Bob

MacGregorSailors.com

MacGregorSailors.com

Which line to cockpit?

Which line to cockpit?

Re: Which line to cockpit?

Re: Which line to cockpit?

Re: Which line to cockpit?

Re: Which line to cockpit?

Re: Which line to cockpit?

Re: Which line to cockpit?

Re: Which line to cockpit?

Re: Which line to cockpit?

Re: Which line to cockpit?

Re: Which line to cockpit?

Re: Which line to cockpit?

Re: Which line to cockpit?

Re: Which line to cockpit?

Re: Which line to cockpit?