Power Without Ballast

[phil kelly]

I have never sailed or powered my X with an empty ballast tank however, curiosity is getting the better of me despite my normally 'safety first' attitude on the water.

I'm certainly not experienced enough to try sailing without ballast but I'm thinking about trying a power run on an empty ballast tank to find out A, how fast I can go on the plane and B, how much more economical it would be (MPG,50HP Yamaha) to motor without ballast.
Now then' just how safe is it to run on empty ballast ? Is it safe to do a tight turn at speed, how much is stability affected and is there anything I really should not try apart from not overloading the boat topsides or motoring without all foils up.
Experienced opinions would be appreciated.

Phil, UK.

[Phil M]

It would be interesting to know the speed difference between ballast and no ballast, at WOT or say 2500 rpms, which for me is cruising speed at full ballast. Tight turns? Not too crazy about that idea. Gradual turns in calm waters would be okay with no ballast.

[EZ]

I run without ballast occasionally. I see about a 200 to 300 increase in RPMs and overspray is reduced. I don't have any fuel consumption data though, sorry.

The boat is more tender without ballast. In rougher seas (not recommended) it feels like I'm riding on a cork.

Also, it's even more important to stay off deck to try and keep the weight low.

Have fun and I look forward to reading about your experience.

[Tomfoolery]

I'm certainly not experienced enough to try sailing without ballast . . .

And you never will be. That boat can't be sailed without ballast, unless you want to turtle it.

[Russ]

Don't sail without ballast. Just not a good idea for many reasons.

Powering without ballast. We do it when seas are relatively calm and winds are not gusty. It's a light lighter and we see about 4-5MPH increase in speed. But, you feel it is less stable.

Try it on a calm day without other boats about to get the feel for it.

We always empty the ballast by running at high speed before pulling it out on the trailer.

[kmclemore]

I agree with the others - sailing a Mac without ballast is just asking for some very serious trouble - at the very least you could get wet or something on the boat could get damaged, and at the worst you or your passengers could be killed. DON'T DO IT.

Powering without ballast is fine - indeed, I prefer to run that way. But please be careful on hard turns and do NOT allow folks on the fore-deck when powering... keep the weight low. The boat will easily and safely do tight powered turns so long as you do not have a lot of weight topside... I've often done so when towing an inflatable toy for the kids in order to tow them over the wake. Naturally, you should lower the mast to keep that center of balance as low as possible.

It goes without saying, but in rough or rolling seas you should always proceed at a slower speed and with great caution.

[Tomfoolery]

One thing I found out, almost the hard way, is that if you leave the rudders low to clear a tow rope connected to the two stern dock cleats, then kill the throttle when the wakeboarder falls, and turn before the wave finishes pushing you from behind, is that the rudders will engage that pushing wave, and turn you quite violently.

I still leave the rudders low enough to clear the tow rope wye section, but after I drop the throttle, I let it grind down and finish getting pushed hard before turning. A little blast of power to swing the stern around, and I'm good to go back for the person in the water.

Until I got this boat, I'd never driven a boat that didn't have a displacement hull, and didn't even realize that the water would catch up to the boat until it did. Never even thought about it. Now I do.

Do be careful with high speed boating, with 'high speed' being a relative term.

[DaveB]

Phil,
Update you profile for type of boat. I am assumeing you have a X or M as you mentioned 50 hp Yamaha.
Both boats require ballast in when Sailing, under power on my X , I keep one rudder down and 8 inches centerboard down below 6 knots for good tracking and hands off wheel. Above 6 knots rudders, centerboard up with empty ballast. This all depends on sea conditions.
I have motored at 6 knots with full ballast and without and makes very little difrence in speed but big diffrence in boat handleing. Keep ballast in all times unless you are powering only above 6 knots.
Dave

I have never sailed or powered my X with an empty ballast tank however, curiosity is getting the better of me despite my normally 'safety first' attitude on the water.

I'm certainly not experienced enough to try sailing without ballast but I'm thinking about trying a power run on an empty ballast tank to find out A, how fast I can go on the plane and B, how much more economical it would be (MPG,50HP Yamaha) to motor without ballast.
Now then' just how safe is it to run on empty ballast ? Is it safe to do a tight turn at speed, how much is stability affected and is there anything I really should not try apart from not overloading the boat topsides or motoring without all foils up.
Experienced opinions would be appreciated.

Phil, UK.

[Steve K]

I know we'll hear variations on this, but keep all the foils up if powering fast. You'll go faster and have better control.
Roger even says this. I powered my mac X with ballast, without ballast and also tried, as some others suggested, leaving just a little of the centerboard down, or one rudder. All these just causes handling issues.

Under full power, with all foils up and ballast tank empty is the best way to power this boat, period The faster it goes, the better it handles and it will almost do a 180 in it,s own length. Yes, keep people off the deck. Where I live, this is illegal anyway. And I think it's is in Nevada too (or at least in National rec areas), because I've seen park police writing tickets for it, even to boats that have open bow seating, up on Lake Mead.

If manufacture guidelines are truly followed, this boat is as safe, or more safe than any other power boat.

I've known a couple guys who sailed without ballast regularly. One on this forum, but I won't say who. He'll have to cop to it himself.
One of them said, many times, that he would dump his over, every now and then. He said it would just flop over on it's side and lay there (and we're not talking about big wind or high wave situations here). He would uncleat the sheets, grab a main halyard, climb over the side and walk down the centerboard. Then, by jumping on the end of the centerboard, while pulling on the main halyard, he could stand it back up, then swim around to the transom ladder and climb back aboard.
I never saw him do this, but he swore it was true. Everything heavy in his boat was low and strapped in place and I have no doubt he was telling the truth. These boats are quite light and I do know laying one down doesn't automatically mean it will turtle, particularly with original flotation in place (that's why a lot of it is up high, over the v-berth and around the cockpit, inside the gunwales) and heavy items are low and tied down. Oh, and you shouldn't store your bowling ball collection on deck either

However, would I try this? ....... not on your life If I wanted to turn boats back upright and get wet, I'd have gotten a beach catamaran. Would have been cheaper and faster

Neither of these guys have tons of cruising crap in their boats either, bty. Both are VERY experienced sailors.

Best Breezes,
Steve K
Mac 26D "Three Sheets"

[pmmcderm]

When I did a test ride with Arena Yachts on my new , Jeff did a hard right rudder at full speed with no ballast, everything up. It was fine. I'm glad he did - I never would have on my own.
Due to the seas and wind right outside every harbor here in hawaii, I now fill the ballast before leaving the pier regardless of what I'm doing. More piece of mind and comfort, but I discovered the hard way that I can not fill the ballast tank in 4-8 ft swells. Keeps sloshing in and out.
I still wanted to empty it ballast by powering fast before putting back on the trailer, but it seems every ramp here is either perpendicular to the trade winds or the surge. Without ballast, it's hard to control (freeboard + skill level), even with the dagger board half-way down. My routine now is to load her on the trailer with the tank full, draining it as I pull the trailer out of the water.
The difference in ride under power is dramatic, even in light winds (10-15 kts here) and low swells (3-4 ft), so I'm not missing the small loss of speed anymore. In flat conditions, powering without ballast seems fine.

[Russ]

RE: Ballast

It needs to be said that you motor with FULL ballast or NO ballast, but NEVER with partial ballast EVER!

Partial ballast will slop around and could cause a very dangerous situation.

Draining it underway is easy. Open both fill and vent valves and power fast until nothing comes out the fill valve and close it.

[Mac26Mpaul]

Forget sailing without ballast!
Motoring without ballast is fine! We dont ever motor with ballast in (except for a coupla trips through a rough bar). Without ballast, its just like all the other power boats out there that dont have ballast and perfectly safe in reasonable conditions. I let my 5 year old take the wheel and he does tight turns and anything else that we would do in other power boats and never been concerned. I wouldnt be doing it with say, 10 heavy people on the upper deck, but in normal circumstances, its fine.

With my 50hp Etec, the boat would be a dog with ballast in...

I think Rogers safety warning about ballast, is just to protect himself against the few that do some really moronic things

You could forget towing a skier or tube toy with a 50hp motor and ballast in

Honestly, there is nothing to be concerned about, just go do it

[Highlander]

ballast in I believe this was Geoff "beene"
http://s844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 010052.mp4

This is the both of us ballast mty , BEENE with mast up , & myself with mast down
http://s844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 010002.mp4

No problems

J

[ROAD Soldier]

ballast in I believe this was Geoff "beene"
http://s844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 010052.mp4

This is the both of us ballast mty , BEENE with mast up , & myself with mast down
http://s844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 010002.mp4

No problems

J

More videos I am just going to have to watch for another two years at least before I can buy an engine that can do that However please make some new ones I would not want to be accused of becoming a cult worshiper of a few videos .

[Highlander]

R/S If we get a good flotila going @ this event I'm sure we will be able to oblige u
http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... =4&t=20472

J