Gas prices pushing $3 bucks a gallon soon!

[BK]

Sloop John B. The cart is called "Clipper Genie Pro," model 8000FF. It holds 200 lbs and has a picture on the wrapping of a person carrying large coolers next to a boat.
The 7" wheels fold flat for space saving storage. The handle pulls out. I got it at my local Costco. I bought this heavy duty cart as 10 gallons of gas is heavy and I also could wheel my 8HP 55lb outboard with it too.
It looks just like a airport luggage cart but wider and heavy duty.

[Scott]

but for the life of me I can't figure out why one of the major political parties doesn't wake up and realize that we need BOTH more drilling and exploration and increased CAFE standards

FYI group. There is a lot of wisdom in this statement. If you have any inkling to or pull in political circles by all means make them drill in the refuge, make them recover shale oil and make them research and dev. alt energy.

If gas goes to $6, it won't phase me at bit. Razz

Except when I have to go to the grocery store and pay $7 for a gallon of milk. And the fuel 'surcharge' on my electric bill is getting a little out of hand.

If the price of oil doesn't clobber you at the pump, it will work it's way around to hit you in the fanny. Crying or Very sad

I own a fleet of trucks. My fuel bill was over 170k in 2004. I just bought 2 more trucks and cant imagine what my fuel bill will be in 05. Heres the kicker, my fuel surcharge for 04 was well over 190k and I just submitted my revised surcharge schedule yesterday with higher rates on top of a minimum.

I work on the raw supply side of transportation. These charges are passed straight through to the end consumer. My customers have no complaints paying this!!

You will pay for increased fuel prices even if you walk to work.!!!!!!

[Jeff S]

In the next 15-20 years at the current world growth rates the demand for oil will exceed the production capacity. Over this time the prices will continue to rise which will balance out the demand size to some degree. One of the issues is that China is an economy that is growing rapidly and their demand for oil will far outpace ours in the US. India is another economy that is adding rapidly to the increased demand for oil.

We really do need to invest and secure alternate sources of energy in many ways. Hydrogen anyone? Probably a matter of time before many more follow Tom to the Greasel route. As Scott mentioned we are all paying for it in more ways than one.

The bottom line is we may see small price declines from time to time, but the overall trend will be higher prices.

IMHO (also info from one of my MBA Prof's who used to do consultingth Saudi oil and OPEC).

Jeff S

[Tom Root]

In the next 15-20 years at the current world growth rates the demand for oil will exceed the production capacity. Over this time the prices will continue to rise which will balance out the demand size to some degree. One of the issues is that China is an economy that is growing rapidly and their demand for oil will far outpace ours in the US. India is another economy that is adding rapidly to the increased demand for oil.

We really do need to invest and secure alternate sources of energy in many ways. Hydrogen anyone? Probably a matter of time before many more follow Tom to the Greasel route. As Scott mentioned we are all paying for it in more ways than one.

The bottom line is we may see small price declines from time to time, but the overall trend will be higher prices.

IMHO (also info from one of my MBA Prof's who used to do consultingth Saudi oil and OPEC).

Jeff S

Well, then you are familiar with the PEAK OIL THEORY then, and by some measures the 2007 prediction of the fact that production will be less than demand has now been peaked.....this year!!! A full two years early by some expert's estimation. In other words, the world's need for fossil fuels will not decrease, but rapidly increase, and there is NO bandaid for this problem. I am not crying like chicken little, and saying the sky is falling, but those who are wiser than I, have said this for years, and I listened. I try and be proactive, instead of reactive, doesn't always work.....but I try anyway. We all have to make changes in our habits...or feel the pain later. Greasel isn't an end all solution, but a veggie based fuel supply is better all around, be it used or unused vegtable based.

Many third world nations are becoming more...uh, advanced, due to our offshore reliance on labor intensive products etc., and China, believe it or not, just a few mere years ago all people in China depended on two modes of transportation, bicycles, or mass transit, that is changing almost overnight. The big three automakers have gone in full force last year licking their chops, they see a market, and maybe even seeing ALL American cars produced there!! UAW, won't even exist in a few years!

Reminds me of scenes of movies like 'Escape from New York', 'Waterworld' & others in that this is where reality mimics art possibly!

[Mark Prouty]

Hydrogen might work if it came from renewable resources and was produced by renewalable resources. I'm concened the plan is to extract hydrogen from fossil fuels. That power used to extract hydrogen will not come from power generated by the sun or the wind but will come from fossil fuels and nuke enegery. That we are not doing more research on other possible renewable energy resources.

Will we ever see a hydrogen powered outboard?

Possibly in combination with sweating propellors or hulls.

[Divecoz]

Higher prices will drive down consumption and especially in Countries where the general population has less available funds . China India all the developing Countries. Mexico has about $2.50 a gallon at the pump and a LOT more little cars and trucks than here. Is not much of /all of Europe at this point already? Diesel has been popular just about everywhere but the USA Canada and few others for a long time and Ford M.C. has produced a Diesel 4 cyl Ranger for Asia and South America for years and yet we see it NOT here. Those others of you, who have also been out and about have seen that All the Major Car manufacturers produce numerous economical vehicles that we don't even know exist here in the USA because . . here they dont. .Before anyone jumps up and down . . yes under less stringent guideline's for health and safety. The folks with the big boats . . most have the money to spend IMHO. No doubt those on the edge will drop out and away . Most I have meet here in Chicago . .thru my son-in-law make 6 to 10 times what I make . .. and I am comfortable . They are not sweating the increase in fact one said "it will get the little guys out of my way" arrogant ba----.
Hydrogen ? Its being pulled from water for fuel as we speak . I believe Argon Nat Labs has an on going project concerning this.

[Richard O'Brien]

Historically, humans have never exercised self-restraint until they were absolutely forced to do so. Look at the North american buffalo, the South American forests, so many examples. I'm figuring when the time comes, the answers will be found. Too many dang cars around anyway. Brazil has found an answer with alcohol, Mexico with propane. I see China making the petrol carts for North Americans, but they themselves will go alcohol, methane, natural gas, or??. I wonder about golf cart villages? It's that "pursuit of happiness" thing. What were those constitutional framers thinking? 'Sounds like something a frat house might have added at the end of a long finals week.

[waternwaves]

interesting to watch all sides of this issue....

But why drill inthe ANWR at this time or anywhere else protected stateside.... leave it for strategic reserve during our retooling time necessary to bring about new technology.


Seems to me, if we are going to use oil, use up the other countries supplies first.......then doesnt that make our remaining reserves more valuable.....

Personally, I look forward to hydrogen fuel cells.......
, it will be a while before aircraft ( our primary defense weapons systems) will be converted to other energy sources...

But maybe it is time to lessen air travel, and quit dumping particulate and gaseous carbon at altitude, implement higher fuel surtaxes etc....dedicated solely to alternative fuel development, and alternative energy conversion... But that would be too easy... why do that when we use those taxes now to build roads, for more cars, more commuting

and sail there......

Isnt all this instantaneous electronic communciation suposed to cut down the supposed need for travel.......lol


but at the rate the average american uses energy....., and his bias against nukes, his bias against high costs for solar.... is it any wonder we still have a Petroleum based economy.... Too many people people still want a free lunch.....

But,
be it as it may...the energy crisis is merely a "cheap energy crisis", unless someone moves the planet.....

External combustion (ie more efficient) engines are here, and new techs are under develpment...

Guess the jobs for engineers/designers and inventors will be safe for a while.....while the next saviour technologies are implemented....

nuff for my soap box I guess...... lets go boating......

[Tom Root]

...... lets go boating......

My sentiments exactly!!!!!!!!

We'll never save the world on here...but some things are worth discussing and pondering. I learned a few things from this thread also!

[Moe]

Darren, I strongly agree with not tapping our own reserves except as a last resort... and using up the rest of the world's first, regardless of what we have to pay other sources.

However, I'm not particularly found of nukes and the waste problem.

I remember how many old homes were insulated or addtionally insulated, single-pane windows replaed, solar water heater systems installed, and even some photovoltaic cells and wind generators installed back in the days when there were tax deductions to do so. Seems like the loss in tax revenue could be offset by higher taxes on electricity and fuel, not to mention smaller government.

--
Moe

[Chip Hindes]

However, I'm not particularly found of nukes and the waste problem.

There is not an actual nuclear waste problem. There is a nuclear waste perception problem.

The cost of safely handling nuclear waste is pretty small compared to the cost of safeguarding our access to the foreign oil you guys want to burn plus the cost of living and breathing in the crappy air that comes out of fossil fueled power plants.

Gotta admit, first time I've ever seen the phrases "higher taxes" and "smaller government" in the same sentence.

Go nukes!!

[Mark Prouty]

Nukes are bad, Nukes are good. Oh no. The board gonna be tossing nukes now!



Nukes are bad. The nation's 103 nuclear power reactors are vulnerable to attack by terrorists. Too risky a way to boil water

[Tom Root]

Mark....I read your fine print, maybe I shouldn't go here, but here goes! We are spending Billions for companies like Halliburton to protect Iragi citizens, and far less on real homeland security! I gotta stay away from political discussions, as it is a fine line between what I may percieve as what should be done, and another persons view. It's just like religion, get's ya into hot water in a heartbeat!

I will refrain....and stick ta sailboats here!

My solutions is truly simple, take the spent nuke fuel rods and launch 'em into deep space. That's the only true safe place for them, and doable right now. I got the rockets....now to convince Governments to do the right thing. Space trash is the only way to go!

[waternwaves]

I have got to use some of those animated .gifs

Thankyou Mark, enjoyable art ideas as usual!!!

[Scott]

I dont care to go political either, but on the oil front, or "Why drill for oil now in the ANWR?"

Every time america has faced this crisis, 1898 1910 1930 1950 1968 1970 1976 1983 and so on, new drilling in known reserves has reversed the pricing trend. The oil prices today are a symptom of production. OPEC stated 5 or 6 years ago that they were going to slow production to get oil over $30 per barrel and they did. It worked. In the meantime the other economies that were finally succeeding in bringing up their standard of living got to the point in that process of being able to afford electricity on a broad scale, automobiles, modern cooking and heating appliances and the myriad of cosmetic and other afluent life necessities that are petro based (Plastics etc.). This in turn creates a favorable supply and demand position for the Major oil producing nations of the world.

The point is not far from it being more profitable for oil companies to ship USA production overseas if its not already.

I know I railed about this in an earlier thread but the Trade defecit is truly the emergency right now. Not oil. The oil answer short term to me IS extracting what we have now and allowing the economy to address the defecit. Alternate energy ie: Veg oil fuels, Alcohol, Solar etc needs to be addressed close behind.

Dont get me wrong, I love my standard of living and dont want it to change, but the reality is that it will if we keep on the same path economically as the last 70 years.

I researched this as far back as 6 years or more ago. (My livelyhood depends on it) I dont know the answer. Depending on who you read or listen to you get diametrically opposed views on oil reserves.
1 We have enough in the US to go another 200 years.
2 We'll basically not be able to pump enough to meet demand worldwide in as little as 10 years.

Which it is, I dont know.

Plan for the worst, Hope for the best!!