Suspension help

[Hugh]

My TV is an '09 Nissan Frontier 4X4 Crewcab tow rated 6100lb
We have only towed our 2x 60km each way.
In comparison to my 1800# teardrop I certainly felt the Mac behind me.
The bumper drops about 3" when we hook up the boat.
In order to keep the trailer level I use a ball mount with a 2" drop flipped upside down to give a 1" rise.

My question is about using suspension help IE spring stiffeners air bags etc.
My biggest concern is trailer sway followed by not having the rear end drop too low.

I don't want to compromise the everyday drivability of this truck.
I checked on a Nissan Frontier Forum and came up with three options.
#1 Timbren Suspension enhancement
Features:
Hollow rubber springs sit above the axle, helping to stabilize and level the vehicle while providing a more comfortable ride by absorbing road shock and improving roll stability. Easy to install and use.
#2 Firestone Ride rite air helper springs
Features:
For safety and stability, air springs are the perfect partner for your rear suspension when you are hauling heavy loads. Springs reduce strain on your rear axle, keep your vehicle level, and adjust to load sizes for a consistently smooth ride.
#3 Supersprings
Features:
Install these beefy helper leaf springs above your vehicle's rear factory leaf springs. SuperSprings reduce sway and prevent sagging - great for towing or hauling heavy loads. Additional mount kit included for OEM springs that set above the axle.

http://www.etrailer.com/susp-2009_Nissan_Frontier.htm
Any thoughts or experiences with these product? or other suggestions.....

Hugh

[Spector]

I have the Firestone airbags on my Titan, more for other loads than the Mac but I love them. Brings the truck up when you need it and you just need to let the air out when down and all is back to normal

Where are you sailing? Ghost?

[bartmac]

The use of airbags only on the rear of vehicles is something I have looked into.....and is totally different to changing/beefing up of the normal leaf spring configuration.Our need was not so much for beefing up the suspension but more for the roll control ie from side to side c/w individual control L & R.Care has to be taken with the adding of airbags as the effect of these bags can in theory lock up the rear axle in extreme cases causing handling extremes which can cause accidents.The physics of it I can't adequately explain (Boyles Law and all that) but can be demonstrated really well by the use of a bicycle pump....just put your finger over the airhole and pump......the pressure increases and eventually you cant overcome it ie "locked up"...the same can happen on the rear axle of a vehicle with potentially disasterous consequences.

[Hugh]

Where are you sailing? Ghost?

Yes;
Bought it new this Sept.
Drove it to Canmore and back to clean it up and get ready for winter. The drive on the TCH was bumpy which prompted this post.
Hugh

[RobertB]

If you have coil springs in the rear, have you considered cargo coil springs? These are a variable coil spring that give the normal ride when mildly loaded but stiffen up quickly after that. Other approach I have used in the past are air shocks - not a big fan of adjusting these all the time.

[bscott]

I have used coil spring air bags on my Jeep GC and currently on my Jeep Commander---over 7 years of total use and never an issue. I keep 6 lbs for normal driving and 10-12 lbs for towing as measured by how much air it takes to level the trailer.

Bob

[kevinnem]

Hello Hugh and Spector.

I just wanted to send a quick shout out, and say hi, I sail out of ghost lake as well. Send me a PM if you guys ever want to head out.

As for towing, I would think you would NOT need any supplemental work. Certinely if you feel you do, and end up installing something PLEASE let us know about the project and how it helped, or didn't.

I think one thing you should look at is the tongue weight. often causes of issues relate to this.

I tow with a 4 runner, a worse tow vehicul then you have I would guess, and although I don't like the "tail wagging the dog" effect I would not suspect a suspention issue.

Kev.

[Tomfoolery]

The problem with mechanical helper springs is that you either have them always working, even if variable rate, or they only come in when the suspension is deflected beyond some point in the travel. Either way, you have to deflect the suspension enough for them to work, but you're trying to keep the ass end from being deflected in the first place.

Stepped mechanical suspensions are fine for dump trucks and such light and medium vehicles, where you are either empty, or overloaded. Empty, you get a less jarring ride as the helpers don't even contact the pads (look at small and medium trucks next time you see one). Loaded heavy, the helpers essentially stay in contact with the slipper pads, so the overall spring rate is much higher.

For a car/two vehicle, I wouldn't want a stiffer-right-from-the-start suspension, as it's always stiffer. The car will sag less when you put the tongue load on the ball, but unless you actually jack up the rear a little when adding helpers, it will still sag lower than unloaded, no matter what, since a spring doesn't take any load until you deflect it.

That suggests air suspension of some sort, as they can have zero or near-zero spring rate with no trailer (by dropping the unloaded air pressure), and can be adjusted to bring the back end up to its unloaded height when the trailer is on the ball (by increasing the air pressure). As far as hydraulic lockup goes, that's probably a real possibility, but the answer would be to use the proper system for the intended amount of boost and the amount of suspension travel. The variable spring rate of air suspension depends on a lot of things, including geometry, and even the type of air bag (variable rate or fixed).

My experience is with heavy truck and trailer air and mechanical springs, not automobile, so take the above with a grain of salt. But if I was doing this to a passenger car or daily driver pickup, I'd use an air suspension of some type. If it was a work truck and/or beater, then whatever is cheapest.

[rocklighting]

I have an '11 Toyota 4Runner which I had the same issue with. I installed Airlift 1000 air helper springs (The same as the firestone airbags). I have to say they work great. I never towed my without it but I have towed other boats without it. They are only about $70 and a shop by me charged $150 to install. Quick, cheap, and effective way. They stiffened up my ride a bit which is what I was looking for. I'd start with that and see how you like it.

[BOAT]

Air bags are the best because they do nothing when you don't need them (as opposed to helper springs that are always there making your ride stiff when you are not under a load).

I used air bags on a Dodge Dakota for a 1000lb camper and to tow an A23 and I also put air bags on a Dodge Ram Quad truck for the same load. They worked great.

[WHRoeder]

A mac and trailer is about 3000 lbs, so your tongue weight should be no more than 300 lb.
Measure it! and adjust it by moving heavy items aft.

[Tomfoolery]

A mac and trailer is about 3000 lbs, so your tongue weight should be no more than 300 lb.
Measure it! and adjust it by moving heavy items aft.

Maybe the smaller Macs, but my and steel trailer is around 4kips, and I believe the is even more, depending on how it's equipped and loaded (with gear).

[trdprotruck]

Go with the air bags! It made a huge difference on my 4wd Tundra. Before airbags I had a "dolphin nose" effect. Whenever I towed a trailer down a bumpy highway, the front of my truck would oscillate up and down like a dolphin. The airbags eliminated the dolphining, leveled out the truck and greatly improved handling. It really wasn't too difficult to install and it still leaves a comfortable ride when not towing.

I think the Japanese manufacturers give the cars soft springs for a more comfortable ride since a majority don't really tow much.

-Randy

[Harvey]

You might consider using a weight-distributing anti-sway hitch. Take a look at http://www.equalizerhitch.com.

It is the only weight-distributing hitch that works with surge brakes.

I have been towing my X for several years with both a Honda Odyssey minivan and a Ford Explorer using the Equal-i-zer and am well pleased with its sway control and leveling of my tow vehicles. Search the forum using my handle as a search term to see comments on its effectiveness.

The hitch was designed for RV-type trailers which have a "Y" frame tow bar. There is a crossbar made to fit the MacGregor single pole tow bar trailer frame. Check with the Equal-i-zer folks to see if they recommend using one. I use one, but I think another poster a couple years back said that the Equal-i-zer folks told him the crossbar was not needed.

Disclaimer: I have no connection to Equal-i-zer except satisfaction with the product.

Harvey

[Spector]

Hello Hugh and Spector.

I just wanted to send a quick shout out, and say hi, I sail out of ghost lake as well. Send me a PM if you guys ever want to head out.


Kev.

Sounds like we need to start the Ghost Lake MacGregor Owners Group! Lots of others there too. We'll be renting a mooring next year and pretty new to this so definitely up for meeting you both.