Wind and Waves

[markdartist]

Inflexible drive to stay on schedule caused the greatest airline disaster of all time. When we consider taking our Macs onto big water, the ability to evaluate conditions, regardless of a weather report, and say, nope, we're not going out today, is simply good seamanship. Experience teaches that turning around when things get ugly is a poor second to not going out at all because sometimes turning back is not an option. That said, nice job keeping your crew safe!

Safety in winds over ten knots depends on practice in lighter air. Fifteen to twenty knots is fun stuff with a reef in the main and standard jib but experts only. Twenty to twenty five knot winds make for a great run but beyond that or going to wind and I'm sailing on a bigger boat.

Tide, wind and river current are a tricky mix. Transiting from river to ocean in a small light weight boat like the Mac is advanced sailing. In my neighborhood, a trip over the Columbia river bar to the Pacific Ocean is planned with care.

Spend a couple of seasons on the river in all conditions and learn from experienced sailors before taking on the big blue.

For Kindle owners interested in a story about my own go / no go misadventure, check out this:

http://www.amazon.com/Gale-Warning-ebook/dp/B00BPF63UA/

[Ixneigh]

I've had several heavy keelboats prior to my M model. If anything I am over cautious about her limitations. But I didn't buy the boat to sail in bad conditions. I keep her (try to) in protected waters. That is not waves over four feet. I would encourage you to discover options for different weathers in your sailing location. If jts cruddy, I sail to some islands a mile or so from my moorings or stay well inshore. If its nice I'll visit the reefs or deeper water. I feel the mac has some weak points such as the rudders. It has some strong points such as the engine and room below. And afternoon moored in the shallows is more comfortable than in other boats.
also. Take the boat out with a buddy who also boats to gain experience in windy conditions. Learn how to reef if you haven't actually done it while sailing. Learn its little tricks while under just the main, which I like to do in windy weather. Try using the engine while sailing to get the feel of that. If its really breezy you can leave the motor down and use it to help tack the boat if you need to.
get at least familiar with its operation in less then stellar conditions. Talk to the local launch ramp crowd about hazards not mentioned on the charts.
Good luck
Ix

[reastmure]

So far I've stuck to fresh water sailing so have no experience with tides, currents and such. One of these days we will venture to the Alaskan coast - I have been getting envious of Yukon Bob cause he's sailing down there now. The lakes in Yukon have another month or so before the ice goes out! Anyway, I had some hairy experiences last year on our lakes here. Problem is that the wind here never just blows at 10 or15 knots all day - when it starts to go, it pretty quickly gets up to 20 to 30 knots plus with steep waves and close sets. I was educated by Judy B this winter about why I was getting slammed when I was out in this kind of wind - wrong sails! The stock sails were meant for 6 to 10 knots of wind and are dogs above that. I have new cloth on the way and they are sails that are meant for stronger wind - tougher material and flatter foils. I think this will make a world of difference for me. If I sat on the anchor in a protected cove every time the wind got above 20, I would not be getting much sailing done! So I think matching equipment(especially sails) with the typical conditions that one encounters in their area is key. And of course common sense when it becomes atypical!

[BOAT]

In California the wind is usually not a problem and the swells almost never break. Down in Mexico we would get horrible winds so strong but there would not be much swell activity. My fear with high winds is mooring. I can’t sleep and people are dragging anchor and it’s really dangerous. I can make headway in bad wind but it’s sort of a pain in the ass. If you add a really big sea on top of that it’s just plain miserable. Still, if you are in open ocean between ports like most of my sailing between the mainland and the channel islands you have no choice but to just tuff it out and work the helm as best you can. The guy in San Francisco has good advice: put out a little bit of sail and run the motor so you can control the boat up and down the waves – you will be working hard for hours and there is a good chance a rudder arm will bend. Just try to work with the boat. I remember a Sunday crossing back to Long Beach from Avalon one time when I spent 5 hours on the helm fighting like that all the way home and my parents, (being good Catholics), insisted on going to Mass when we finally got home. I fainted in the pew right there in the middle of the service that night. Dad figured we could miss Mass that night, and brought us all home.

If you can avoid it, avid it, but if your struck in it – don’t give up, don’t give in – you can keep it together but it’s going to be a slog of a fight.

[DaveB]

Come down here in SW Florida during the weekend and see the weekend warriors out in full form. Some of these 50 footers in a restricted channel on the Intercoastal waterway think they have the rules of the way and disregard their wake as a fun intertainment for their passengers.
I personally think they get their rocks off on how much they rock the boat they pass.
Swamping would be a great victory for them and put a notch in their belt.
VHF radio and broadcasting name of boat and their danger helps.
There are so many boaters that rent a house down here with a boat and have no idea what they are doing. Even those supplying boats have Ill equipment with a cheap small anchor with no chain.
I would love to see a requirement were any operator of a vessel on water is required to take a C.G. or Power Squadren class .
Dave

It should be noted that most states now require some mandatory boating education and certification to be legally operating a vessel.

Besides being a legal requirement, boating education is something I feel strongly about. Even experienced boaters can learn something. I am reminded of a course our squadron offered a local yacht club. I was amazed how little these yacht club guys knew. They could get their boats out of the harbor and sail, but didn't know much else.

[JohnCFI]

Bit like the Korean Squid Jiggers down here, except they don't speak English (or don't answer anyway).

[yukonbob]

So far I've stuck to fresh water sailing so have no experience with tides, currents and such. One of these days we will venture to the Alaskan coast - I have been getting envious of Yukon Bob cause he's sailing down there now. The lakes in Yukon have another month or so before the ice goes out! Anyway, I had some hairy experiences last year on our lakes here. Problem is that the wind here never just blows at 10 or15 knots all day - when it starts to go, it pretty quickly gets up to 20 to 30 knots plus with steep waves and close sets. I was educated by Judy B this winter about why I was getting slammed when I was out in this kind of wind - wrong sails! The stock sails were meant for 6 to 10 knots of wind and are dogs above that. I have new cloth on the way and they are sails that are meant for stronger wind - tougher material and flatter foils. I think this will make a world of difference for me. If I sat on the anchor in a protected cove every time the wind got above 20, I would not be getting much sailing done! So I think matching equipment(especially sails) with the typical conditions that one encounters in their area is key. And of course common sense when it becomes atypical!

Going to the boat in fifteen min to put new shrouds, headsail, and full enclosure on, so probably not getting out of harbour today, but come on down for an afternoon whenever you want, just pm me on thursdays. We're usually there every weekend, and if I know someones coming down I'll stick around Skagway. Like to leave early Saturday mornings to go to Haines for the day. Sailing is better there (more open) or further down by Tongass but thats forty miles, so it makes for a longer day there and back. But sailing around Eldred rock is fun, and there's usually porpoises.

[JotaErre]

There's a proverb: "Better to be in the port regretting not having gone sailing than to be in the sea regretting not having stayed in the port".

[Catigale]

That's beautiful country up there Yukonbon...hope you have a great season.

[kurz]

[quote="Ixneigh" Try using the engine while sailing to get the feel of that. If its really breezy you can leave the motor down and use it to help tack the boat if you need to.

Ix[/quote]

Hello
How much heeling is allowed with the outboards on? Normally you are hardly advised to put the motor out while sailing becouse the motor cannot get the oil becouse the oil pump will just get air in the worst case. No problems with outboards?

[K9Kampers]

There's a proverb: "Better to be in the port regretting not having gone sailing than to be in the sea regretting not having stayed in the port".

There's another proverb: "A smooth sea does not make a skillful sailor"

[ualpow]

[quote="DaveB"]Come down here in SW Florida during the weekend and see the weekend warriors out in full form. Some of these 50 footers in a restricted channel on the Intercoastal waterway think they have the rules of the way and disregard their wake as a fun intertainment for their passengers.
I personally think they get their rocks off on how much they rock the boat they pass.
Swamping would be a great victory for them and put a notch in their belt.
VHF radio and broadcasting name of boat and their danger helps.
There are so many boaters that rent a house down here with a boat and have no idea what they are doing. Even those supplying boats have Ill equipment with a cheap small anchor with no chain.
I would love to see a requirement were any operator of a vessel on water is required to take a C.G. or Power Squadren class .
Dave

Dave, as soon as I can transfer down there we can run some circles around those "renters" Shoot a line over their bow and drag them back out to try it again.

[Ixneigh]

I don't know about the four strokes. I have an etec motor. As long as its got the cavitation plate wet I'm good. These boats or at least mine will be reluctant to tack with just the main up, esp if reefed. Even if its crap windy I do not let the boat herl past 30 degrees. Your just wasting your energy. The boat will handle better and be safer if you reef. If j have to go to weather in strong conditions, a reef and the engine at 2500 rpm is hard to beat.
an old salt friend of mine once said, Shell point higher and foot faster with the engine at idle. This man designed and built shallow water small boats. He was a master shipwright who knew when and how to cut corners to produce an economical wooden boat that could last for a long time. All his boats had an orange cove stripe. To my knowledge, even subsequent owners never changed that.
to the guy with 30 knot lake winds: trade your power sailor in for a 25 foot swing keel mac. It will sail way better in those conditions
Ix

[mastreb]

How much heeling is allowed with the outboards on? Normally you are hardly advised to put the motor out while sailing becouse the motor cannot get the oil becouse the oil pump will just get air in the worst case. No problems with outboards?

I've been caught in the San Pedro/Santa Catalina channel in six-foot rollers, with measured heel >50 degrees. Scary as hull for the kids and admiral, and I made the stupid mistake of going on deck to the mast to retrieve a loose halyard and very nearly pulled the boat over with my 260 lbs. weight topside. Never do that.

The ETEC-60 was a champion the entire time (about two hours, one hour going out, one hour coming back after deciding that getting to Catalina wasn't nearly as important as not foolishly killing myself).

It just ran without complaining the entire time, irrespective of the constant heel and pitching. Made it very easy to keep the boat between swells, minimize rocking, eliminate breeching, and get back to port in Dana Point safe and sound. It cavitated numerous times coming out of the water and revving, but that never bothered it.

That experience (and frankly all the experience I've had with it over the past two years) makes it one of my most trusted pieces of equipment. The thing just always, always works. I've come to the boat with a dead battery having left the perko switch on, and rope started it in one pull after having been sitting cold for weeks.

I have no experience with other outboards, as this is my first one of any significance, but I can't imagine being happier with any piece of equipment. It's two years old and has not yet seen it's first service, having a year to go before the first recommended service occurs. I've not fogged it for winter because we use the boat all year long here.

Matt

[yukonbob]

That's beautiful country up there Yukonbon...hope you have a great season.

Was beautiful… then the harbour froze over