Keel problems on V 2-22

[shv]

I'm the proud owner of a, just purchased, 1971 Venture 2-22. I haven't sailed since I was a teen and when I did it was in small boats. I am very excited to get back into sailing after 45 years. With that said I need some advice on the swing keel problem on these boats. My keel has splits and cracks in the fiberglass covering the keel. My research tells me this is a common problem for these boats. The 2-22 has never been in salt water but I can see corrosion where the fiberglass cover has failed. I plan to remove the keel soon and check it out. I think I can refurbish the keel but I need some advice. Can I just strip off the fiberglass covering, clean the metal, paint it with epoxy (like Marine tech or such) paint, and Not recover the steel with fiberglass? Would that cause a problem? I'm not looking to win races with the boat but don't want to kill it's performance. I just want to enjoy sailing again with a safe boat with acceptable performance. Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

[DanInCanton]

Congrats on your new boat and welcome back to sailing! I'm no expert on the 2-22, but I've owned a '73 Venture 25 and an '83 Mac 25. Both those boats had a bare metal centerboard, and aside from a little rust, never had an issue because of it. Both were wicked fast for their size. I suspect that the fiberglass was primarily put on to make the boat look pretty on the showroom floor. If it were my boat, I would strip it down to the metal, fair any major rough spots out with epoxy filler and put a good coat of paint over it.

If it's in acceptable condition, you might think about leaving the fiberglass shell in place over the upper 12 inches of the board (the forward edge when raised, and the top when lowered). The board is designed to wedge itself into the trunk when fully lowered and you might experience a little bit of knocking from side to side if you narrow the board too much at the top.

[shv]

Thanks for responding to my post. On my boat the whole keel fits up into the pocket with about 3-4" below the bottom. It is horizontal with the bottom. If noticed the 25's are on an angle, with the trailing edge down. Is that how your 25s were? I guess it really doesn't make any difference because I'm guessing the 25 and 22 keel is the same shape. Thanks for the advise, I wouldn't of thought of that! I was hoping I wouldn't have to re-fiberglass over the keel again. It seems to me its inevitable that the bottom of the keel is going to get scraped removing the fiberglass starting the whole process over again.
I bought the boat in South Carolina and I live in Florida. I am going up next month to bring her home. I can't wait to get started on the restoration. Thanks again.
Steve

[Steve K]

Steve,
Some of the models had flat steel plates inside the fiberglass keel. In other words the foil shape is built by the fiberglass and the steel core is just flat chunks. In this case, you would have to do some re-shaping with epoxy/fiberglass. (which will be more work). However, if the keel is delaminating, it is best to tear into it and fix it right. I've done this before on a Catalina 22 (check my post in the recent thread subject "MacGregor25" for the link to the pictures). This keel was a cast iron piece that was shaped, but the job is similar.
I had the keel sandblasted (it was only painted.... no fiberglass) and then I fiberglassed and fared it. I finished in gelcoat. It is fairly easy to do.

BTW:
I also sailed as a young man and then never had the opportunity, or time for many years. At 45, I also bought my first sailboat and have been sailing since (I'll be 61 next month) It'll keep you young

Best Breezes to you and yours,
Steve K.
Mac 26D "Three Sheets"

[DanInCanton]

If noticed the 25's are on an angle, with the trailing edge down. Is that how your 25s were?

The '73 Venture had the keel retracting fully into the hull like your 2-22. The '83 has an angled keel with most of the aft end hanging beneath the hull. I'm not sure when they changed to the angled design, but they did so to remove the bulk of the centerboard trunk from the cabin and open up the footwell around the dinette table a bit.

Again, I have no personal experience with the 2-22 or with a fiberglassed centerboard. Steve K may have a good point about the board being "chunky" without the glass exterior, but I would think that it could be filled in with epoxy body filler and sanded smooth without a huge investment in time or money.

[shv]

Thanks guys for your response. I'm not experienced in fiberglass work so I need some advice. From what I saw of the metal part of my keel, it is a flat slab of steel. Steve, I looked at you pics and want to know how to get the foil shape (BTW your finished keel looks like an airplane wing - very nice). Can I put a filler on the sides of the steel and build off that with fiberglass or should I keep building layer upon layer of fiberglass? I've used Bondo on cars before without much luck. Help!

On a personal note, I used to sail in flat bottom rowboats on the Chesapeake Bay when I was in high school with my buddies. I'm 60 years old now so that was a long time ago. I went sailing with my son on his Columbia 28 not long ago and fell in love with sailing again. I guess its better late than never.

Steve

[Ixneigh]

I owned a 22.2 for 12 years, and never had an issue with the keel. it was a 73 model. I kept it patched if the fiberglass covering seemed to have holes or cracks. Boat was hit by lightening, and that made holes in the boat and keel sheathing, both of which I fixed. The fiberglass prevents oxygen from reaching the metal. So long as it remains intact, not much rusting can happen. I am certain that there was sea water inside the fiberglass on my boat, but I made sure to keep the coating intact, and added some glass to the bottom of the keel for bump resistance.
If the keel itself still fits into the trunk (mine had plenty of room) and the "head" of the keel where the bolt is, that on my boat was thinner then the rest of the keel, is not expanded by corrosion, then I would just use glass tape and patch the cracks. Sand it as smooth as possible and paint it. Taking the keel off is a big project.
I always expected my keel to have problems, since you read a lot about them, but it never did. I also placed a zinc on the wire pennant to help prevent corrosion.
Ix

[stone_love]

you can use fiberglass resin (epoxy resin) as filler. You mix it with filler that you can buy from the epoxy distributor...i used US epoxies and i did not pay the extra $$ for the west products.

You can also mix saw dust with epoxy resin to make a filler.

[ChockFullOnuts22]

I was going to say, the 1971 model year would very likely have had nothing but the steel plates in fiberglass option. I think 73 was the year MacGregor went to the Cast iron ones. Anyway, yes...the steel wrapped in fiberglass keels all seem to have a problem with delaminating. Very fixable, but there are two main things you'll want to look out for.

1. The most famous is the area around the pivot hole. Chances are, if the damage isn't too bad, yours is perfectly fine and you have nothing to worry about. If you drop the keel completely out of the boat to do your repairs, check the area around the pivot hole for more cracked fiberglass, rust, and the shape of the hole itself for being oblonged. If you have suspicious cracking or heavy rusting going on there, strip the fiberglass all the way off to examine the metal underneath. There's a comparatively TINY amount of still between that hole and the trailing edge.

2. With the steel plate and fiberglass keels, you have one thick main plate and then a smaller cheek plate on each side that is welded to the main plate. With this, if possible, you'll want to inspect the cheek plates for separation from the main plate. Rust in between them will force them surprisingly far apart.

Case in point: My 1972 V2-22's keel totally delaminated back around 2005 or 2006. I was pretty nervous that the thing was in such bad shape that it was going to fall out of the boat and then I'd have fun trying to find another one somewhere to get her sailing again. However, aside from surface rust, it was fine. No pivot hole problems, and no cheek plate separation. I did a fast re-coat with fiberglass and a few cans of filler to give it a resemblance of a foil shape again (because the bare steel plate will hurt the performance more than you think) after treating the metal with rust converter and painting it with polyester resin, and it's been fine ever since. For the head of the keel, I was concerned about getting the width right; so I used epoxy resin to glue the old pieces back on, and then I bonded and sealed the seams. So far, that seems to be working out ok.

Mine is a freshwater boat, too, though. I hear salt water is much, much worse with rust problems.

If your keel isn't too bad, I agree with Ixneigh's patch it and sail approach (wish I had done that before it was too late). But if you have to strip it all down, I would recommend getting at least a rough foil shape back with some fiberglass. Sailing with just the steel does slow you down...I noticed it on mine before I got the thing on a cradle and went to work on it. Best of luck with the boat!

[My 2 silver dolphins]

I have a Venture 22 built in 1972. I took the boat off the trailer so I could do some modifications to the trailer. My Keel was a mess most of the fiberglas covering was cracked or separating. I removed the keel and had it sand blasted. I took photos of the keel fiberglass for reference. I desided that I did not want to have the problem again. I cut 2" Pipe in half and welded it to the leading edge in some places I had to use 1.5" pipe. I created a trailing edge with 2" x 3/16" steel and welded it in place then I used 3" X 3/16 steel to fair the sides of the Keel to meet the trailing edge. I formed the area where the cable attaches from 3/16 steel. I also plan to drill,tap and install stainless studs along the leading edge so I can attach a stainless skid plate and Zincs.The new steel added about 40 # to the keel so I plan to use 1/4" Cable instead of 3/16 just to be safe. I will apply "Rust Block" to the keel and then fair in all voids with Epoxy filler. After smoothing and sanding the fillet material I will apply Epoxy resin lightly sand and paint with Bottom paint.
While I realize this is a lot of work the cost of a new keel would be $550 plus shipping to the west coast. I think that my rebuild will be worth it in the long run an eliminiate corrosion problems associated with the keel design.