something interresting

[Wayne nicol]

here is something i picked up on one of the other forums i like to read a bit on.
in fact this poster was really pro the macs, and the water ballast- but he did mention this one fact...
"According to Sailing Today, September 2000 page 83, Van de Stadt’s Dehler 25 sloop bested MacGregor Yachts by a year or so in the use of water ballast. The German Dehler 25s were produced from 1984 to 1991 and water ballast was reported in the US to be used for economical trailering reasons and cost savings."

[mastreb]

Huh. That boat looks almost exactly like a MacGregor 25. Very difficult to determine from the prints where the water ballast tanks would have been, but it says it did have additional water ballast.

[seahouse]

Sorry - I don't pay attention to that kind of stuff - has Macgregor claimed to have been the first for water ballast use? I guess I missed that.

There would have to be some specific qualifiers to the claim of course. (Like first to be used in a mass-produced fibreglass trailerable sailboat in the USA, for example).

I don't ascribe to the Guinness Record Book kinda' stuff - it is not much more than commercializing (which they do very well, btw) a good bit of nonsense. And genuine accomplishments can be excluded by them using various fabricated technical reasons of varying validity.
-B.

I didn't realize Macgregor might have been the first, if they weren't the first.

[kadet]

Sailing Big on a small Sailboat by Jerry Cardwell has a reference to Macgregor Corporation being the first trailerable sailboats made in this country to use water ballast, it reads like it was taken straight from Macgregor's advertising literature. So the qualifier is the first made in the USA

The Dehler 22 Manufactured a year before the 25 in 1983 was also water ballasted but both Dehler’s also had weighted centreboards 399kg on the 22 and 375kg on the 25. The water ballast was an augment to the centre boards so not truly fully water ballasted. So was the 26D the first truly water ballasted trailerable sailbaot

[Wayne nicol]

yea- i agree with the "first' claims being a little tedious
however i have seen all sorts of claims made by macgregor- but a lot of it seems to be hair splitting semantics.
having said that i dont care who did what first- i do love my
there is a whole debate raging on, on this forum( 17 pages now) about the mac issue- about macgregor claiming to be the inventor of the swing keel, well that seems to hjave been disputed, and trailerable seems to also have been disputed- thae only claim- holding water- so to speak, is that macgregor were the first to produce a traierable sailboat with a cabin
man,- people sure hate these macs---they have got to be such a threat to everything that is holy to them. i mean if it were that insignificant- people would just ignore them and move along, the irony is the more they publicly hate the macs, the more attention is drawn to them- the more get sold!!!

[Capt Smitty]

My is my "first" sailboat. A Personal World Record! I love it, don't care what the haters say.

[kadet]

-they have got to be such a threat to everything that is holy to them.

Looking to upgrade in the not too distant future to a larger boat I am starting to research a replacement and I actually like Hunters and Beneteaus.

But some of the misinformation out there on them is amazing.

Like spade rudders and fin keels are not sea worthy on a bluewater boat.
B&R rigs with no backstay are not sea worthy.
Modern production boats are too flimsy to cross oceans and flex too much.
A true sailboat should be made of wood weight 150Tons be square rigged use rocks for ballast and sail at 3 knots have no electrickery be navigated by the stars and only use fresh water for drinking once a day

I think the :macm:s of the world are seen a bit like the VW Beatle in that it allowed the masses to get into a "club" sailing that previously was the domain of the wealthy or the elitist. Allowing the common man to do this without spending lots of $$$$$$$ was just not cricket

[innervations]

Hi Kadet, although it can be expensive I would recommend chartering a Hunter and Beneteau first to see how you like them. There is a range of Hunters you can hire in Sydney harbour even for just a day. We took one out for two nights over Australia Day weekend last year and really like the Hunter 32. Also have chartered a Beneteau in the Whitsundays which I think was also 32 footer from memory. Both are really solid brands with modern design and construction and you see them all over the world making ocean passages.

[Wayne nicol]

i too suffer from the age old boaters malady, of "twofootitus"
i like everything about the macs, but would like something just a wee bit bigger, with a few extra amenities : proper shower, and head- still sleep the same amt of people in a similar configuration, , maybe some good locker space for wet gear/ dive gear, a bit more space in the cockpit, a pilot house with internal steering station, and the option of removable tiller steering, for sailing on those great days,side decks to get forward easily and safely- and the fore and aft berths would kinda be more "Cabinish" with bulkheads. .....

so i have been working with a designer at producing a 32' x 10' still trailerable, water ballast- twin 70's to get the 20kn( huge safety feature here in the twin motors)- run one when you just want to cuise, and an array of rigs- i am looking seriously at a schooner rig with a more trad top sides,but would still look good under power! and in about the 5000lb mark.
it would have better stabilty- being wider- and would need less water ballast to achieve better stability( due to width) but due to the advanced design of the hull it will not impede performance.
and of utmost importance- still be trailerable!!!!!!

--- now that would be the ultimate boat for me!

we get an annual permit for over 8.5' and up to 10'.

[yukonbob]

I've been lurking the boating classifieds as well. The hunter legend keeps coming up as well as c&c's both in the 35-40 ft range.

[kadet]

Hi Kadet, although it can be expensive I would recommend chartering a Hunter and Beneteau first to see how you like them. There is a range of Hunters you can hire in Sydney harbour even for just a day. We took one out for two nights over Australia Day weekend last year and really like the Hunter 32. Also have chartered a Beneteau in the Whitsundays which I think was also 32 footer from memory. Both are really solid brands with modern design and construction and you see them all over the world making ocean passages.

Except the ones in my price range have not been available for charter for 15 years or more

But I do plan to charter something in the Whitsundays before making up my mind before retiring. Though the wife will probably want a 20 metre Cat

[Three Gypsies]

We owned Bayliners , before we bought our


Like Macs Bayliners have all sorts of bad repudiations , none of which are true .
And like Macs , Bayliners are considered economy boats that outsell everything else.


I can testify that Macs are outstanding boats .
2012-2013 we put 5,000 miles on ours in nearly every kind of water and wind , from creeks to open ocean , from gentle winds to 60mph winds .
We have lived aboard for 8 months .

the boat has performed beautifully . She is now a trawler and we plan to put at least a few more thousand miles on her soon !

[Ixneigh]

Heh... Moving up. I ditched a 33ft yawl to get down to a 26 ft boat. I really am a small boat sailor at heart. Not to mention the Mac is probably the most cost effective boat it's possible to own. Even the outboard, admittedly expensive is probably cheaper to service then an inboard diesel. Rigging and sail replacement are pretty cheap too. Best of all I use it a lot because it's easy to take out and put away.
Ix

[Boblee]

They can run down the Macs as much as they like, there is absolutely no other boat in the world today or yesterday that can do what our boat does except another Mac.

[J--]

It's a class issue.

The carbon fiber and polished teak crowd don't like to share their precious waters with the hoi polloi.