Lifelines - worse than useless?

[bobbob]

It seems to me the lifeline height up top (not the cockpit but forward of it) makes them worse than useless - there is zero percent chance those will prevent someone from falling off the side, and a very large percent chance they will trip someone as they go over and end up in the water upside down

Has anyone either just removed them, or possibly tried to add height to the stanchions to make them more useful?

[K9Kampers]

You're talking about the laundry lines, right! I hang wet laundry and sail ties and fenders from those and tie off a solar shower beam-wise on top of the sliding hatch while underway.

They'd only save you from going over if you were lying on, not standing on, the cabin top. Extending the stanchion height would interfere with the boom, look silly and potentially be easier to bend as a load is applied to it.

[NiceAft]

I understand your thoughts on the lifelines, but I don't think they are that bad.

There have been times on deck when a wake or a swell broadsided my Mac, and I did not see them in time. Those lifelines kept me from falling over when I grabbed hold. Are these lifelines of terrific quality, we all know better. They are adequate for what the boat appears to be designed for.

If the weather was bad, and I had to be on deck, I would rather have a tether attached to a line running bow to stern, than depend on a lifeline..

Ray

[grady]

Life lines are to have somthing to hang onto or clip into, if you have a real offshore vest. When going fwd you should be bent over hanging onto one. Standing up just make the chance of you falling over more. I acualy lowered mine to clear everything better and to be more comfortable while hiking. Also to clear the new winches.

[Wind Chime]

I agree the lifelines are lightweight, but I think we all agree this is a lightweight boat ... so it's form (and budget) follows function.

I too have had to grab the lines or a stantion from time to time and they have held my 200+ pound 6'1" frame onboard from getting wet. I have jack-lines and inflatable PFD with harness and tether to that when underway, would never tether to the lifelines and expect a positive result. Not made for tethering to, more of a guideline then a lifeline.

I don't mind the fact that on the foredeck they go so low, most other boats have higher lifelines attached to the pull-pit on the foredeck and it really interrupts the shape of the foot of the sail on anything but close hauled by having the foot go up and over the lifeline such as the model M does.

[tek]

I seem to remember in the owner's manual that you aren't supposed to go forward on the cabin top when underway, at least not while under power. Obviously may need to adjust sails if under sail. I'm guessing the short stanchions had something to do with that being included in the manual.

[grady]

As far a thinking these life lines are light weight. I do not see that they are any lighter than other boats of the same length. You may be able to rip a stanchion out but you are not breaking the life line or ether fwd or aft attachment. I have put a lot of load on my stanchions with out issue. The only ones I have ever seen fail are always associated with deck rot.

[NiceAft]

I seem to remember in the owner's manual that you aren't supposed to go forward on the cabin top when underway, at least not while under power. Obviously may need to adjust sails if under sail. I'm guessing the short stanchions had something to do with that being included in the manual.

Not being on the cabin top has to do with the ballast tank being empty. With the tank empty, the self righting capability of the boat is severely retarded. The lifelines had nothing to with the warning. See page one of the owners manual.

Ray

[Tomfoolery]

I rely on mine more than I would think, just sitting here, as I very often lever against them with a lower leg to keep from tilting right over the side. In a real jolt, like a big wave or wake, I'd go right over, but with my lousy balance, I find I'm leaning against one to keep stable more frequently than I think I should. Hard to explain, but over the years I've noticed that they do provide some stability every now and again. One hand for the work, and one hand for me, but I wouldn't want to be without even those low lifelines.

[grady]

Those life lines do more than you think if nothing than mental safety. I have been on a J22 and a Sonar 23, no life lines at all. Both boats are designed so that you never go fwd of the mast. When somthing goes wrong and you have to go fwd it is a weird feeling when you are up there and the fwd stay is the only thing you have to hang on to and you have to get from the mast to it without a mistake. Oh ya and when thing go wrong it is always in high winds and waves.

[K9Kampers]

In one of my earlier sailing videos, a high wind & wave day on Lake Champlain, I was on deck filming and being railmeat. Facing windward with feet dangling and hanging onto the lifelines, by the sound of my laughter, I was certainly having a fun time!

[My Mistress]

I added a second set of lifelines to my Mac so I don't have the lines angling toward the deck at the bow and stern. It adds a feeling of comfort. Hasn't been stress tested though.

[Ixneigh]

I'm sure not taking mine off.
Ix

[Chinook]

Regarding the original question about making them higher, look for pictures of RIS's boat Jill Kristy. They're doing the Great Loop and opted to do the cruise without mast. Instead, Richard installed a short mast for lights, etc, and set up taller cabin roof stanchions to provide higher lifelines. This gives Richard and Jill a greater degree of security when moving about on deck. He also had a special enclosure made which takes advantage of the lack of a boom. It's tall enough to allow them to stand up in the cockpit. These mods have worked great for them while on their loop cruise. One comment I have about stock lifelines is to occasionally check the pelican hooks on the cockpit lifelines, if yours have these openable hooks. One time I was leaning over the side to mess with the dinghy and the lifeline, which I was leaning against, suddenly gave way. It was the closest I've ever come to falling overboard. Cause was the pelican hook becoming unscrewed from the lifeline. The tightening nut had worked loose and the thing suddenly gave way. Worth checking those things from time to time.

[Catigale]

You need the lifelines to angle down up front to clear the Genny when winged out

I put the Sunco pelicans on all the lifelines ..cockpit for access, front lines for trailering and stepping mast