'BOAT' needs your help and advice

[vizwhiz]

So I'm kinda with Sumner on this one... Check the batteries with a meter after rest (first thing in the morning, etc.). You get an idea where it is. If you're halfway paying attention to your boat/battery, you'll remember how it worked the last time, if there were any excursions or large draws, and how quickly it charged back up. You remember when you bought them, how old they are, etc. Unless you are starting with a "new-to-you" setup that you bought from somebody, you'll know your situation pretty intimately. Each time you use it, you'll have a feeling for how long it is holding charge, whether it is starting to run out sooner than normal, etc. If so, you run an equalization step on the charger connected to 120V power. If all is well, you sail and enjoy yourself. If the batteries charged up okay, they'll be high voltage. If not, they'll be low voltage. Do you EVER really go under the hood and check your car battery? (Those of you who live in winter climes, of course - but we're talking BOAT here...) Or do you just wake up that one fateful morning and clicky-click, it won't start - you check it THEN, and it's 10.5V. You go "Oh well, dead cell. Time for a new battery."

So this may be a little late, since you've already started building the new dashboard, but how do you use BOAT? How much electricity do you really need on each excursion? You said you don't have solar, and you live in sunny california, so I'm guessing you mostly just day-sail, maybe an overnight here or there. There are some (thinking YukonBob) who used to go out for four or five days at a time, without much certainty of sunshine for solar, or marinas to pull into. And they talked about having to be conscious of electrical usage, water usage, etc. Sumner going to the Bahamas...sure, you have to stay on top of things. Chinook and ris doing the loop probably have to watch everything. But for daysailing? For one night overnights (like what we do)? Nah... One battery is enuf. Small solar panel for charging in-between. Check the voltage, check the water...and take off. If we get to the point where the battery isn't lasting quite long enough for an overnight trip, then we'll do the equalization on it. Until then, I'm a sailor, not a battery mechanic.

(I'm not very OCD either, and some people are. So this is just an opinion, and all are entitled to be as anal about battery maintenance as they'd like...)

[grady]

So if your only use is when the engine is running then the parasitic draw of the coil will not be a big issue. There will not be any draw when unlatched. Still do not see why you just would not buy a battery combiner that does everything you want already automaticly. If you are worried about the extra $30 it costs then you probably should sell your boat and bury your buffalo nickle fart jar back in the yard.

[kadet]

The big issue as I stated before is the different chemistry and SOC of the batteries, with 30+ years ago motorhomes it probably did not matter with wet cell batteries and dumb alternator/magnetos etc.

Fast forward to today you have smart sensing, rectified and regulated alternators' in your case BOAT you have very smart EMM charger probably as smart as any 3 stage mains power charger. You have a start battery that is normally geared for high CCA and a house bank of deep cycle batteries probably AGM these days.

I will try and explain what happens if you have a dumb ignition solenoid setup in today's world which is why those expensive sensing solenoids and even more expensive DC to DC charge controllers have come to be.

You start the day with both batteries at 100% full charge. You start your motor turn on all your toys and motor out of the harbour.
You now start sailing and turn the motor off, start battery is 100% and holding, house battery 100% and failing. Now we sail all day with the toys all on. In my case that could draw up to 10amps/h so after 6 hours I have used 60AH or half my house bank, without any solar to help out . So now we have a start battery at 100% and a house bank at 50%. When I start the engine and combine the two banks in parallel with the dumb solenoid what happens is the smart alternator detects the high voltage of the start battery or averages the voltage of the two and either does not charge or only charges for a very short time before regulating the charging to a low amp float.

So what happens is you start to trickle charge a flat AGM battery which is a no no and just as bad as over charging it.

This is probably not going to be a big problem for a daysailer that is then put on a mains charger when it gets home on the trailer or at the dock. But if you are going away for a few days and expect your motor to be the sole charger then forget it.

Boat your E-tec is a 25A smart charger when running at 2000rpm so your choice, I also would not trust a 100 year old piece of technology with an E-tec's EMM after my experience

A $50 saving could cost you a new motor, I cannot make it any clear than that. The old days are not always the best days.

[Baha]

So I'm kinda with Sumner on this one... Check the batteries with a meter after rest (first thing in the morning, etc.). You get an idea where it is. If you're halfway paying attention to your boat/battery, you'll remember how it worked the last time, if there were any excursions or large draws, and how quickly it charged back up. You remember when you bought them, how old they are, etc. Unless you are starting with a "new-to-you" setup that you bought from somebody, you'll know your situation pretty intimately. Each time you use it, you'll have a feeling for how long it is holding charge, whether it is starting to run out sooner than normal, etc. If so, you run an equalization step on the charger connected to 120V power. If all is well, you sail and enjoy yourself. If the batteries charged up okay, they'll be high voltage. If not, they'll be low voltage. Do you EVER really go under the hood and check your car battery? (Those of you who live in winter climes, of course - but we're talking BOAT here...) Or do you just wake up that one fateful morning and clicky-click, it won't start - you check it THEN, and it's 10.5V. You go "Oh well, dead cell. Time for a new battery."

So this may be a little late, since you've already started building the new dashboard, but how do you use BOAT? How much electricity do you really need on each excursion? You said you don't have solar, and you live in sunny california, so I'm guessing you mostly just day-sail, maybe an overnight here or there. There are some (thinking YukonBob) who used to go out for four or five days at a time, without much certainty of sunshine for solar, or marinas to pull into. And they talked about having to be conscious of electrical usage, water usage, etc. Sumner going to the Bahamas...sure, you have to stay on top of things. Chinook and ris doing the loop probably have to watch everything. But for daysailing? For one night overnights (like what we do)? Nah... One battery is enuf. Small solar panel for charging in-between. Check the voltage, check the water...and take off. If we get to the point where the battery isn't lasting quite long enough for an overnight trip, then we'll do the equalization on it. Until then, I'm a sailor, not a battery mechanic.

(I'm not very OCD either, and some people are. So this is just an opinion, and all are entitled to be as anal about battery maintenance as they'd like...)

I would agree with this, but some folks like to fiddle with batteries. It might sound like heresy, but I would rather replace a battery a little more often than spend much time on conditioning stuff. I usually only day/weekend sail and usually overnight in a marina.

On another topic..."buffalo nickle fart jar" may be the funniest, most BOAT-like comment I have seen on this page!...

[BOAT]

"Warmer" huh, okay, I guess that warmer is better right (as opposed to 'colder') but I don't feel any heat or cold from the dash so I am missing something that others can see.

I guess i will continue in WOOD, I was looking at this Bayliner and he had the carbon dash so I thought that was what I was supposed to use but I really can't tell what is better:



I was also thinking about those big sailboat dual helm ship dashboards - they don't seem to have wood anymore:



I never built a boat dash before so I was just looking at all the other boat dashes and noticed all the carbon fiber black colors - but if you guys think wood is better I will use wood.

I wonder why Roger used black carbon color on the pedestal?

[Seapup]

So, what do YOU guys prefer? The WOOD LOOK or CARBON FIBER! What do you think?

No question, Carbon fiber sticker all the way, maybe even a full hull wrap and some type R stickers for added performance.

[BOAT]

what's a sticker? I was talking about a REAL carbon fiber sheet like 1.3mm thick. That should be stiff enough, right? and about half the weight of wood.

But really, I don't know - I only went down that rabbit hole because all the places I looked on the internet for dashboard pictures for boats all had these carbon fiber things - I guess like airplanes??

Any pilots out there?

Do airplanes have carbon dashboards?






So you guys think the carbon thing is too much?? Over the top? (I was really considering changing out the pedestal black plastic with the carbon fiber - I guess that's not a good idea, huh? )

I will defer to you guys on the design elements here.

[Seapup]

what's a sticker? I was talking about a REAL carbon fiber sheet like 1.3mm thick. That should be stiff enough, right? and about half the weight of wood.

How many pounds would that save on this piece?

[Tomfoolery]

Seems like a good crinkle- or hammer-finish black spray paint would be about as good. And much cheaper.

[K9Kampers]

You should use Peachwood... it's a MacGregor thing!
In the morning light, it gives off a soft warm glow. Now that would be cool!

[Seapup]

Hmmm, how about one of these too?

[BOAT]

So this may be a little late, since you've already started building the new dashboard, but how do you use BOAT? How much electricity do you really need on each excursion? You said you don't have solar, and you live in sunny california, so I'm guessing you mostly just day-sail, maybe an overnight here or there. There are some (thinking YukonBob) who used to go out for four or five days at a time, without much certainty of sunshine for solar, or marinas to pull into. And they talked about having to be conscious of electrical usage, water usage, etc. Sumner going to the Bahamas...sure, you have to stay on top of things. Chinook and ris doing the loop probably have to watch everything. But for daysailing? For one night overnights (like what we do)? Nah... One battery is enuf. Small solar panel for charging in-between. Check the voltage, check the water...and take off. If we get to the point where the battery isn't lasting quite long enough for an overnight trip, then we'll do the equalization on it. Until then, I'm a sailor, not a battery mechanic.

Yeah, this pretty much pegs me for the kind of sailing I do right now - I hope to do longer trips when I don't have to work anymore. I guess your saying I might need a solar cell (?) (now we are really going to confuse me with technology).

you probably should sell your boat and bury your buffalo nickle fart jar back in the yard.

Well, I don't really want to sell 'boat' so I guess I will not do the jar for the fart nickle - (besides, I keep the boat in the back yard so what's the difference?)

Boat your E-tec is a 25A smart charger when running at 2000rpm so your choice, I also would not trust a 100 year old piece of technology with an E-tec's EMM after my experience

Okay, but I still don't trust the PERKO either because it's prone to human error. I guess I will just stick with the PERKO even though I don't trust it

How many pounds would that save on this piece?

'Bout 2 ounces I guess.

Hmmm, how about one of these too?

Okay, I guess that's another NO vote on the carbon fiber.

You should use Peachwood... it's a MacGregor thing!
In the morning light, it gives off a soft warm glow. Now that would be cool!

Okay - another vote for WOOD I guess WOOD it is.

Thanks Guys!

[K9Kampers]

You really should consider one of these BOAT... it'll make you 'go' faster!

[BOAT]

I considered it. I did not over look anyone's recommendations - and as I tally the votes the wood seems to be the winner - so I will get out a can of varnish tonight. (I really thought all you "high tech" battery savvy 'electronic' guys were gonna go for the slick carbon graphite - you surprised me).

[K9Kampers]

I wonder why Roger used black carbon color on the pedestal?

Likely because at the time it was less expensive than using white!