Madman iSteer autopilot remote for Raymarine

[sailboatmike]

Hi Mike;

ok, so I take it the answer is no?

One of my pet hates in life, they cant even make wheels with the same number of studs and stud pattern WTF, ridiculous.

Im sure we cant be far away from some smart person using the huge computing power we have in our phones or $50 tablets to be the brains if a autopilot,

The options are limitless and its only the big companies that have the world to lose if they dont embrace it.

I know heaps of people that no longer have chart plotters and just use Navionics or similar on the smart device, that all boils down to sales lost, next step is integration between Navionics and a cheap drive system (autopilot)

[BOAT]

The Ray Marine ST4000 tiller drive module, ACU-100 brain, and the EV1 sensor core is made in Hungary.
(The real guts of the EV-1 is a flat disk made by Raytheon.) That's where all the money is> the Raytheon disk: it has a 3-axis digital accelerometer, a 3-axis digital compass, AND a 3-axis gyro digital angular rate sensor.

A human can't hold course as well as the EV-100 when it's in performance mode - it thinks way too fast.

Do we need that kind of precision? (2 years ago I would have said, "no".) I always thought it was only for racers until one day I was beating hard as the course to my harbor was on the knife edge of 'boat's ability to point. I still had several miles to go - a deviation of even 1 degree and I would overshoot the mouth.

I don't know how you use your plotter but on mine I setup a Heading Line that projects 30 miles out in front of the little boat on the plotter with little hash lines for each mile. When you aiming for a harbor 10 miles away in open waters that is a big help - it's incredibly difficult to keep the heading line right on that harbor 10 miles away when your on the helm. If you zoom in on the harbor on the plotter screen and watch your heading line it swings back and forth missing the harbor by a full mile at that distance - the EV100 in performance mode will bring that variance down to a few hundred feet. It's pretty amazing.

The RayMarine remote is old, legacy molded grey plastic waterproof (very 90's looking) HEAVY remote made in USA (probably why it costs so much).

The little P60 heads and gauges are all made in China (those are the ones with the fancy colors and splash screens and incredible I phone like displays).

I think the software guys are probably pushing the high costs - but I really don't know. Here in California they write all the software and design everything but all the actual manufacturing happens somewhere else. Nothing is actually made here in California except money. It's as crooked as Wall Street.

[MikeFloutier]

Is anyone using the Madmanmarine iSteer remote and if so how is it doing? Even just the basic fob version.

I'm working at installing an RM st2000 below deck (Thanks to BOAT et al - cost £192) with my own hard-wired remote (cost £6 + some old cat6 cable lying around) featuring 4 waterproof buttons on the binnacle.

But I plan to upgrade to Madman next year hence this appeal for reviews.

[kadet]

Is anyone using the Madmanmarine iSteer remote and if so how is it doing? Even just the basic fob version.

I'm working at installing an RM st2000 below deck (Thanks to BOAT et al - cost £192) with my own hard-wired remote (cost £6 + some old cat6 cable lying around) featuring 4 waterproof buttons on the binnacle.

But I plan to upgrade to Madman next year hence this appeal for reviews.

How are you going to calibrate the st2000 below deck, as this cannot be done via seatalk i.e. via remote?

[kadet]

That's where all the money is> the Raytheon disk: it has a 3-axis digital accelerometer, a 3-axis digital compass, AND a 3-axis gyro digital angular rate sensor.

You can get all those things in a single chip worth $20 you would be surprised at how inexpensive electronics really is to make.
The money is in the intellectual property of the control software that Raytheon has been developing for 40+ years that makes it all work together.

[BOAT]

That's where all the money is> the Raytheon disk: it has a 3-axis digital accelerometer, a 3-axis digital compass, AND a 3-axis gyro digital angular rate sensor.

You can get all those things in a single chip worth $20 you would be surprised at how inexpensive electronics really is to make.
The money is in the intellectual property of the control software that Raytheon has been developing for 40+ years that makes it all work together.

Trust me, I know that. It takes many years to properly develop a software operating system to handle three axis of control. Raytheon spent millions developing that protocol for auto pilots on airplanes. Why would they give us three axis control on a boat?? A boat only operates in TWO axis! Raytheon is the only company that has that kind of resource, (but the secret is that you really don't need that much control).
So why use an airplane pilot software and sensor in a boat pilot?
Because they already had the million dollar software developed - it was cheaper to just copy the software into the cheap consumer grade boat pilot brain and use the same sensor disk that is used in the airplanes. That's why the unit is so expensive - no because of 4 bucks worth of plastic, it's because of the thousands of labor hours programmers poured into writing the code.

Apple makes phones for near nothing in China in huge slave labor workshops. If they tried to do it in California the phone would cost 2 grand. All electronics is assembled on the cheap by slave labor that can be exploited to work for a buck a day for 16 hours a day seven days a week with no health benefits. Once you get one of those slave shops set up every electronics manufacturer in the US will beat a path to your door to have you build their units.

All the money is in the code writers and designers - an they all live in California - when you buy a phone your paying for the swimming pools and BMW's for programmers and developers in California, your not paying for a stupid phone. Trust me I know -

[stuendan]

HI Mikefloutier,

I'm using a RM 2000+ below deck and a basic Madmanmarine remote up top.

I see this as a basic point and go autopilot system and set it to steer via visual/chartplotter fixes (or into the wind when setting sails) so I am not concerned about calibrating the compass. I did initially worry about the autopilot's gain setting but, if needed (though my setup seems ok with standard settings at 5 knots) it's not a biggy to do the test as per manual, go below and adjust, then test again.

The "only" downside with the setup is the lack of visual or audible feedback up top when going from Standby/Auto and vice versa. It's a case of hold the A or B button for 4 secs, then operate the +/- 10 deg inputs and see if the wheel responds (or not). Steering inputs (short A/B or C/D, for 1 deg or 10 deg course changes can be observed from wheel movements.

Note that this remote will not allow rudder inputs in Standby mode, only Auto.

I have emailed Madmanmarine about the lack of feedback and he has said he would consider it in the future. Please feel free to email him. He could provide beeper signals at the remote receiver location (which could be wired to a beeper up top) when the reciever passed the signals to the Rm 2000.

Make sure the RM2000 attachment point(s) is strong (bolt fixing required) as they generate up to 75Kg thrust.

Cheers, Stuart

[MikeFloutier]

Many thanks guys!

How are you going to calibrate the st2000 below deck, as this cannot be done via seatalk i.e. via remote?

Good point, I'll have to pop below to do that on the unit itself. Although, as my own remote doesn't use SeaTalk, I could install a repeater of the little display on the binnacle but, for the rare occasions when calibration was needed, I don't think it would be worth the clutter.

The "only" downside with the setup is the lack of visual or audible feedback up top when going from Standby/Auto and vice versa. It's a case of hold the A or B button for 4 secs, then operate the +/- 10 deg inputs and see if the wheel responds (or not). Steering inputs (short A/B or C/D, for 1 deg or 10 deg course changes can be observed from wheel movements.

I agree, but I guess it's something you get used too; feedback in terms of response to commands should be pretty instant so...

Note that this remote will not allow rudder inputs in Standby mode, only Auto.

I just rechecked my st2000, both with the device's buttons and my £6 hard wired remote and they both steer the boat in standby mode.

I think the reason why Madman hasn't implemented this function (which isn't mentioned in the RM st2000 manual btw) is probably that his remote is designed for ALL RM autopilots and I'm guessing that some of them have a clutch mechanism that disconnects the drive when in standby.

I'm glad you mentioned it though stuendan; I may well end up settling for my own remote.

[BOAT]

The guy that sailed around the equator 25 foot boat used an RM2000. It worked pretty good for him. He used it out in the cockpit on the tiller of course. If I find the guys blog on the web i will share it. He used a regular 25 foot keel boat - the boat did very well too but he did have a lot of trouble staying dry - he complained that he was wet almost all the time. The boat had a low companion way opening and very bad headroom so he was sitting with his head out the companionway a lot just to stay cool - but that made him get wet a lot. You do get a lot of spray in those heavy keel boats that are low in the water - they work great in heavy seas, but there is a lot of spray over the bow. He tried to sit inside with the companionway door closed as much as he could but he said it was stuffy and hot and he was a fresh air sort of person who liked to see the sky and look at the moon and stars.

As for the RM2000 he always carried at least two of them at all times because when they are used 24 7 (as you would use an AP on the open ocean) they wear out pretty fast. He was replacing the RM2000 with a new one about every 3-4 months. Mosty, they were just burning out after so many hours of continuous operation. Sounds like a pretty good unit.

[kurz]

As for the RM2000 he always carried at least two of them at all times because when they are used 24 7 (as you would use an AP on the open ocean) they wear out pretty fast. He was replacing the RM2000 with a new one about every 3-4 months. Mosty, they were just burning out after so many hours of continuous operation. Sounds like a pretty good unit.

But I do not unterstand why he used an AP for circumnavigation. Mostly they use mechancal windvane steering without any electrical/electronical parts.

[BOAT]

As for the RM2000 he always carried at least two of them at all times because when they are used 24 7 (as you would use an AP on the open ocean) they wear out pretty fast. He was replacing the RM2000 with a new one about every 3-4 months. Mosty, they were just burning out after so many hours of continuous operation. Sounds like a pretty good unit.

But I do not unterstand why he used an AP for circumnavigation. Mostly they use mechancal windvane steering without any electrical/electronical parts.

Things have really changed since MY old days - no one uses a wind vane anymore. The advent of solar panels has changed everything. It's easy to collect enough electricity during the day to power all the electronics you need 24 7 now. I will get the blog site for that guy - like everyone else doing equatorial cruising he is using a solar panel to keep his batteries topped off. Here in my latitudes a lot of the sailboats have wind powered generators that even generate electricity at NIGHT!

[Tomfoolery]

Here in my latitudes a lot of the sailboats have wind powered generators that even generate electricity at NIGHT!

The marina neighbors must love that.

There's even water generators to complement the wind generators, for when you need even more. Or when sailing downwind. With no sunshine.

[BOAT]

Here in my latitudes a lot of the sailboats have wind powered generators that even generate electricity at NIGHT!

The marina neighbors must love that.

I don't know what that means. Most of the wind generators look like this:



They do not make any noise so I'm not sure why the marina neighbors would not like them.

Anyways,

The windvanes themselves have changed over the years too - now they are huge industrial looking gantry structures with secondary rudders and look like the Eiffel tower bolted to the back of your boat. They just don't make many wind vanes for small boats anymore. The best ones for small boats are the light ones with the fabric sail, but the whole point of a wind vane is for sailing in really bad weather - the big, heavy, industrial wind vane pilots work best in heavy seas with hard winds and dangerous conditions. (Those are the times a lot of electric AP's drop out).

Since 'boat' is not a pacboat and does not cruise from continent to continent I really don't need a wind vane.

I did use a wind vane pilot in the olden days, but that was because there was NO OTHER CHOICE back then!

[MikeFloutier]

Having just got my hard wired remote control for my RM st2000 up and running, my thoughts turned to wireless and I came across this - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5V-12V-24V-4- ... 1907007434

What it will do, apart from costing only £16.80, is steer the boat when the AP is in "Standby" mode. This was my only objection to MadmanMarine.

The only additional DIY appears to be the "breakout" wiring of the control buttons on the AP unit - gets around the need for an Analog > SeaTalk converter.

It's a bit messy, i.e. Not sure it would appeal to anyone who likes things neat and tidy, eg topping lift attached to mast base , but for anyone struggling with the Admiralty finance committee ("have you added up all those "small" boat-related purchases recently"?) it may be of interest.

And, if you can do without the iPhone bit and can manage with just two fobs, then there's always this for £4.98 - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-4CH-Chann ... 1907007434