Anchors

[Frank C]

You guys need to add a smiley face or something to let the rest of us know when you're joking.

Kite's an interesting idea. Now let's see, as long as the boat's trying to sail, the kite holds it steady. And when the wind dies, your kite string falls, your kite lands in some Island Packet's rigging, and you end up with Macgr-EGG-or ...
all over yer face!

[craiglaforce]

Good point on the Kite. I was thinking it might be OK for daytime anchoring (on a short string like 50 feet). Overnight the wind usually dies and yes the odds are that the kite will come down overnight. I guess liablity concerns might make this a bad idea.

How about this alternative to an expensive anchor sail? Just buy a small canvas tarp and fold it like a triangle over the backstay and just use the top corner grommet as a head , the bottom as the tack and the two grommets that fold around could be like the jib sheet grommet, then cleat it off to one side. This means no sewing, and no cutting.

[Chip Hindes]

Oh, wait... you mean the kite idea was serious?

It's just the the idea of a self-tending kite that would fly on its own, at all wind speeds (including zero) all night, is (how can I say this politely?) not viable. It's way more than just liability. How's this for a wakeup call: the guy next to you decides to weigh anchor for an early start while it's still dark, and on the way out while carefully avoiding your anchor rode, fouls your kite line which has fallen into the water. Which of the components fails first? The line, the cleat, or your neighbor's good will?

Seriously, Tom, I know exactly of what you speak, for I have been there and done that. I've found tieing off at the bow eye rather than the cleats helps a little. Also, putting the centerboard down all the way helps, though having it slam back and forth in the trunk all night makes it tough to sleep and can't be good for it. I've then tried looping a line around the centerboard and pulling it to one side with the winch so it wouldn't slam, but that's surprisingly difficult to accomplish without actually getting into the water.

I think the anchor riding sail might be the answer, but Craig's right that they seem way expensive (even a make-your-own from Sailrite). It would be nice if you could find out whether it works or not before dropping the big bucks. I've tried his idea with beach towels and the like and it's not enough.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Having had several different sailboats and two Macs we have tried Danforths and now only use the Simpson Lawrence Bruce knockoff anchors on all our boats. It's reasonably priced and so reliable.

...

---we are just getting this boat ready to travel and bought the 16.5 pounder from Sailnet for arount $61.00 in October. It was rated for a 30 foot boat so it should perform spectacularly with our 26X.

I wonder if sailnet has stopped selling those, the only 16.5 Bruce I see there now is for $139.95. Boatersworld seems to have the best deals on rode. I noticed they have a 1/4X15chain which is spliced to a 1/2X200 3-strand line for $125 (even comes with a carrybag). I know these are designed to go through a windlass, but I don't see why it wouldn't work for anything else. The splice should be just as strong as the rope I would think.

From the PS report and people's comments on this thread, the Bruce looks like the fastest setting and one of the best for rocks....but maybe not the best for sand...which is what we have mostly in Florida. Right now, my primary anchor is a Guardian G-11 which fits nicely in the anchor locker. In the dozen or so times I've used it, its never dragged once set, although its been difficult to set a couple times.

One thing that bugs me about the bulwagga is that there is apparently no warranty past the money back guarantee they have for the first year. Seems like every other anchor I've seen that costs over $100 comes with a lifetime warranty against breakage. Is noteco the only company that sells them? Still waffling about spending close to $400 for this setup though....wondering whether my G-11 will see me through my cruise down to Sarasota next week.

[Terry Chiccino]

Dimitri, Kim and Chazz are talking about the SL Bruce i.e. Simpson Lawrence copy of the Bruce. The SL 16.5 lb. claw is $65.00 in the West Marine '04 catalogue. I've got the SL 22 lb. claw in a bow roller on my X, I think it looks great on the bow it's easy to deploy off the roller and it hasn't slipped yet! Although I've only anchored twice

[Frank C]

Yes, yes, Terry! The Bruce is $140 - The Simpson Claw is half that price. And, the Fortress FX-11 is bigger bucks, the Guardian G-11 is half-price.

Sometimes people with Guardians like to describe them with the Fortress name. I have the cheaper version, the Guardian G-11. It's not the FX-11, but I'm sure it holds just as well. Sometimes people with the Claw like to name-drop "Bruce." I have a cheaper "Claw," not a Bruce. I'm sure it holds just as well as a Bruce, but it's a Claw. And it's safely stowed in my garage.

A Bulwagga, is a Bulwagga, is a Bulwagga. Ugly? ... that's for the "eye of the beholder." When well-fixed overnight, those "beHELD" by it might disagree that it's ugly. My Claw can't hold a candle to my Guardian G-11, and the Bull is even better than the G-11.

Bulwagga is stowed inside my cabin unless I'm afloat, when it rides "beautifully" on the bow roller. The 16-pounder costs $250 plus shipping. The 9-pounder costs $150, plus shipping. Noteco is the only distributor. There's no alternative source for a Bulwagga, I checked it out before buying. And its owners feel there's no alternative to a Bulwagga.

Dimitri, the $400 would only apply if you wanted both Bulls. Considering your thin waters and sandy bottoms, you should just go with your G-11. My G-11 held a raft of two Macs (on a lake, no swell, no tide) overnight in 30+ knots. It never creeped an inch, it was buried well, and it sure was tough to lift. The Bulwagga is definitely easier to set ... in fact, it sets by hand. You're probably waffling a little because you really WANT a Bull,
but you don't really NEED it.

[Chazz & Kim]

[img]

We bought one "already made" anchorsail many years ago and wanted another, so I made one from canvas-- $5.00 at our local fabric store and already had a brass grommet kit and installed them-- Aprox $2.00--so for around say $10.00 which includes some good thread and some thin line or just use some old halyard etc. to tie it to the back of the boom and the mast.... and you have a perfectly good anchorsail.

As for the anchor we use-yes it is the 16.5 pound Lewmar/Simpson Lawrence/Horizon "Claw" Anchor---We would also like to state that It holds FAST in beach sand, river sand and creek sand---we sleep at night with no problems- been doing it for years with this anchor! We can't say enough good things about it. Ours fits on the bowroller but not in the locker.

FYI---- Defender has one -on page 162 for $59.79 in the 2004 catalog.
1-800-654-1616 [/img]

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

You're probably waffling a little because you really WANT a Bull,
but you don't really NEED it.

Yes, you are probably right I suppose if I did more overnighting with the boat, it would be a higher priority. Nice thing about most Florida shores is that they are soft (and shallow) too ... making it quite a bit less dangerous than your left coast rocky shores.

When I said close to $400, I meant 250 plus 11-12 shipping for the Bull, then another $125 for a good quality rode.

Surprised we don't see any Bull imitations out there. Would be nice to see one made out of aluminum with lifetime warranty for half the price. The design does seem to make good sense, in a way, its like a modified Danforth...one where the flukes are already fixed at an angle (similar to what the Danforth has once the flukes go down), and there are 3 flukes on two axis instead of 2 flukes on one axis like a Danforth. I guess the angle of the Bull flukes convexes out a bit too.

I figure if my G-11 ever slips, I'll be buying a Bull.

[mgg4]

Surprised we don't see any Bull imitations out there.

Probably because there are Patent issues keeping competitors at bay. When the patent expires, we will see all kinds of knock-offs. Just like what happened with the Bruce patent.

--
Mark Galbraith
Mac 26x "Offline" (2002)
Oakley, CA

[Gary]

Can someone tell me which anchors can be pinned in the anchor roller from BWY. It's the one with the notch cut out for the forestay tang. I have a fluke that I use now and keep it on a pulpit holder, but would like a second anchor (claw type) that could be pinned to the roller.
Thanks in advance.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

The roller sold by BWY is not a roller made to store any anchor. It is just anchor fairlead used to guide the rode when raising and lowering the anchor. It is too short and centered to hold an anchor, and it does not have any provision for a pin to hold it on the roller. The bow light on the little L bracket off to the side is also in a very exposed position as well as being too low so an anchor on the roller would onscure the entire starboard side. While I'm sure you could manage to store an anchor in it, at an angle with the shank to the starboard side, it is not designed to do this for any type of anchor. At an angle a bruce style might work. I think you would have problems storing any of the fluke anchors, Danforth, Bulwagga, as the port side fluke would hit the boat when it is at a angle.

To store an anchor you really need to have a larger unit offset to one side. Most are on the starboard as the furler line interferes on the port side. This is where the 'M" factory roller is although I've yet to see an 'M' with it. I put a URM-2 on mine to hold my 16.6 lb claw and it works well.

[Frank C]

.... I think you would have problems storing any of the fluke anchors, Danforth, Bulwagga, as the port side fluke would hit the boat when it is at a angle. .... To store an anchor you really need to have a larger unit offset to one side. .... I put a URM-2 on mine to hold my 16.6 lb claw and it works well.

The Bull does not have the stowage limitations that might apply to flat fluke-types. It probably stows even better than a Claw or a Danforth. In fact, the hullabaloo about stowing a Bulwagga is unwarranted ... it's a natural fit on the Mac's bow, nestling quite nicely under the pulpit.

The 17-pounder (Bulwagga on Bruce roller) stows quite well on the smallest Bruce roller, and its flukes aren't even close to touching the bow. The roller is parallel to centerline, offset just starboard of the forestay.

... The Bulwagga design does seem to make good sense, in a way, its like a modified Danforth...one where the flukes are already fixed at an angle (similar to what the Danforth has once the flukes go down) ...

The Bulwagga design is an ingenious application of "triangle" stability, a psuedo-tripod. A tripod is the perfect foundation for uneven terrain, but of course an anchor's job is not "to stand." Push a tripod onto its side and its form stabilty causes it to land on a solid triangular plane, two legs down with the third in the air. A tug to either side causes it to roll naturally onto another stable triangle. Add a cleverly articulating center pull-rod and it naturally embeds those pointed legs. No other popular anchor has its inate protection from rolling and then dragging.

It's a perfect example of "Why didn't I think of that!" It always falls to a "settable" orientation, which is immediately evident in their anchor setting movies. It seems to me that its designer deserves the protection and profits of that patent. I figure all anchors are just a lump of metal that will easily last ten years, and I'm happy to contribute 25 bucks a year to his retirement ... cheap insurance that my boat's gonna stay put. The CQR is the industry standard, but I think the Bull's just as good.

CQR at Sailnet (15# @ $365), with lifetime "breakage" warranty

Bulwagga at Noteco, (17# @ $250) with 100% money-back guarantee

[Mark Prouty]

Unfortunately, Noteco and it seems everyone else does not have any Bulwagga's in stock.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

The 17-pounder (Bulwagga on Bruce roller) stows quite well on the smallest Bruce roller, and its flukes aren't even close to touching the bow. The roller is parallel to centerline, offset just starboard of the forestay.

Frank, is this the anchor roller you bought, the BRM-2?

http://sailnet.com/store/item.cfm?pid=19115

I notice you said you originally bought it for a Bruce, if you had it to do all over again with the Bull in mind, would you install the same roller?

Also, was it difficult to install and do you keep all those bungies on the Bull during sailing/motoring too or only for trailering?

TIA

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Frank, I agree that the bull stores nicely on a real anchor roller. The question I was answering was about the roller BWY sells. This is a centered roller that just barely extends past the tip of the bow. To put an anchor on it, which it is not really made for, you have to turn the shank to the side to miss the headstay tang. If a bull was stored two flukes down, one up the lower port side fluke would hit the hull as this particular roller does not extend out far enough. It might work in the two up one down orientation, but the clearence for the centered fluke down to the bow would be real tight. This particular roller also has a bracket that puts the bow light just off to the port side since the roller plate covers where the factory mounts the light. With the big flukes of the bull sticking up the entire startboard side light would be totally blocked. This of course does not apply to the late modle X's with the light up on the pulpit.

On a larger, real roller that extends well out front the bull stores great.

Dimitri, I looked at the BRM-2 for my bruce/claw, it was higher priced than the URM-2 and I found no functional difference for my use. With the forward loop removed it should work fine for the bull as well.